Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by spk)
    Of course I agree - that is exactly what happens. If an unborn foetus is diagnosed after 24 weeks with a serious birth defect that is incompatible with life (i.e. the baby will die soon after birth and/or be severely disabled) the mother can choose to terminate the preganancy. Or not. The choice is hers and hers alone.


    The connection is utterly false. The Nazis murdered adults, against their wishes. That cannot even be called euthanasia - it was simply murder pure and simple. Perhaps the argument you are trying to make is with regard to eugenics?


    But the frequency is highly significant, since many so-called pro-lifers would have us believe that partial birth abortion is the norm, not an extreme rarity, reserved for cases of utmost medical need.


    Section 1(1)d of the UK's 1967 Abortion Act allows termination of a pregnancy at any time if there is a significant risk of the baby being born seriously disabled (i.e. the child of the pregnancy would otherwise have an unacceptable quality of life).

    As is usually the situation with law, there are no strictly defined cut-off limits as to "how severe is severe", since the courts generally understand that doctors should be allowed a certain lattitude to make clinical decisions for each case individually but the unborn child would have been diagnosed with a serious physical handicap, genetic problem, or mental defect that only came to light at a very late stage.

    To reiterate: of the more than 180,000 women in England and Wales who had terminations last year, fewer than 1% were carried out between 22 and 24 weeks, let alone after that period.
    So you are saying in effect that doctors know irrefutably, the likelihood of outcome of the birth on quality of life? May I remind you that 'quality of life' can only be measured objectively by the subject?

    Is that not an illustration of the arrogance that this thread is about? :rolleyes:
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by Ataloss)
    Medical students no longer take the Hippocratic Oath upon graduating as doctors. Instead they take the oath outlined in Geneva which forms the second part of your post.

    Hope that clears it up for you.
    Thank you - so they do include in that oath (as I highlighted)
    "I will maintain the utmost respect for human life from the time of conception"

    Umm...interesting - seeing as there was much debate on whether the newly conceived child was classed as human.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Why is this still on abortion? Whether you believe abortion is right or not it isn't doctors that decide this policy. You can't 'blame' them for it.
    And whether a few scientist/doctors are performing experiment in eugenics proves only that some doctors do so. Again, whether you disagree with that or not, whether you think it arrogant or not, it hardly entails the generalization that 'doctors (majority) are arrogant.'
    God D&D is getting worse than the Sun and the News of the World stuck together (into some kind of weird News of the Sun thing...) Cut the propaganda people and consider the actual points your argument support, not just what you would like them to.
    Offline

    13
    Yes, it has got a bit side-tracked, hasn't it? (and I'm as guilty of that as any other person)

    But - the central point that whenever it is a question of what is best for the patient, the doctor has the arrogance to presume they know best, remains.

    As I said, quality of life cannot be judged subjectively, whether we are talking of illnesses that impact greatly on the sufferer's life or whether it is best to take a certain route with treatment or withholding of.

    In essence, doctors are fallible.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Navindu)
    you realise that 95% of terminations occur before 12 weeks yes?
    and that 95% of all abortions before 12 weeks are spontaneous. (or as you might say 'natural'.)
    Get a grip of basic maths.

    However, 95% of all adult deaths are “spontaneous”, so does that justify terminating tens of millions of adults?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sally)
    BBC NEWS: Arrogant doctors

    "A doctor has been found guilty of serious professional misconduct for taking measures to end the life of a patient against his family's wishes."

    This sort of behaviour is becoming increasingly regular, and it seems to me that doctors are assigning themselves elevated positions in society. We have all heard about Dr shipman and various other doctors that have taken the lives of others. Once upon a time doctors use to try to save lives, now they seek to end them; they even take families to court and demand a right to refuse treatment!

    I think doctors have just become too arrogant, what do you think?
    Meh, I stopped reading your posts as soon as I noticed your signature.

    Apart from anything else, its impossible to disprove anything.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by spk)
    How enlightening.
    Yes it is.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    Apart from anything else, its impossible to disprove anything.

    Is it impossible to disprove you don't have a brain?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sally)
    Is it impossible to disprove you don't have a brain?
    Oh my god, that actually was the worst comeback I've ever heard.

    --------------

    (Original post by Sally)
    Is it impossible to disprove you don't have a brain?
    And yes child, as I tried to teach you earlier, its impossible to disprove anything.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yawn)
    So you are saying in effect that doctors know irrefutably, the likelihood of outcome of the birth on quality of life? May I remind you that 'quality of life' can only be measured objectively by the subject?

    Is that not an illustration of the arrogance that this thread is about? :rolleyes:
    Isn't that a contradiction?

    (Original post by yawn)
    quality of life cannot be judged subjectively
    I would have thought that's exactly how to judge it.

    (Original post by Sally)
    Get a grip of basic maths.
    Get a grip of basic reality.

    (Original post by zooropa)
    Yes it is.
    Why does everyone find you so annoying? I don't :p:
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    Oh my god, that actually was the worst comeback I've ever heard.

    --------------



    And yes child, as I tried to teach you earlier, its impossible to disprove anything.
    thebucketwoman believes it is impossible to disprove, "that her head has the mass of Jupiter and her eyes are the size of melons"
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sally)
    thebucketwoman believes it is impossible to disprove, "that her head has the mass of Jupiter and her eyes are the size of melons"
    read the sig its a he:rolleyes:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sally)
    At least the Nazis didn’t target the most vulnerable of society.
    You what? The most vulnerable and persecuted members of society - ie. homosexuals, disabled people, gypsies, Jews - were exactly who the Nazis DID target!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by HistoryStudent)
    You what? The most vulnerable and persecuted members of society - ie. homosexuals, disabled people, gypsies, Jews - were exactly who the Nazis DID target!
    :congrats:
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    whos the fool now Sally?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Oh dear, Sally actually believes that Doctors are worse than Nazis...

    I'm really worried by the fact her profile says she attends Boston University. Don't they have entrance requirements?
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    shes a reincarnation of the pro life idiot i got banned about2 times in the abortion is murder thread
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by HistoryStudent)
    You what? The most vulnerable and persecuted members of society - ie. homosexuals, disabled people, gypsies, Jews - were exactly who the Nazis DID target!
    Oh, ok, doctors are equal to Nazis then.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sally)
    Oh, ok, doctors are equal to Nazis then.
    You've convinced me, anyhow. :rolleyes:
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sally)
    Oh, ok, doctors are equal to Nazis then.
    SO You would never go to a doctor? :rolleyes:
 
 
 
Poll
Have you ever experienced bullying?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.