descrimination and the art of public school bashing Watch

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fishpaste
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#121
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#121
(Original post by happysunshine)
Er it obviously is. Loads of state schoolers get A grades and they can still apply with AAB. Plus sixth form teaching a state schools is a lot better than gcse teaching.
Ever seen a bad sixth form? One of the ones I applied to don't allow students to do more than 3 ASes. A friend of mine from high school went there with the same GCSEs as me, I got AAAAB at AS level, she got BBD. Some of them have god awful teaching. If Oxbridge were really going to make comparisons between those students and the private schoolers without any sort of 'handicap', then they're really not going to have a chance in hell, even if they magically got 100%, AAA is never going to beat AAAAA or the standard at a private school.

What about STEP? Private schools often coach students taking STEP, alot of state colleges have never heard of STEP.
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fishpaste
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#122
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#122
(Original post by defec8ing)
It does seem to me, that if we punish the children of graduates, who, after all, are only seeking to give their children a better start in life than they themselves have had; then are we not condemning the child by the actions of its parents, and hindering him/her from attaining success, which they may or may not have achieved anyway at a state school?
Hindering them from attaining success? No. If they're good enough they will get in. It's quite simple, access to Oxbridge is based on academic performance. AAB at a crappy state college is a better "academic performance" than AAAA at a private school.
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defec8ing
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#123
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#123
(Original post by fishpaste)
Hindering them from attaining success? No. If they're good enough they will get in. It's quite simple, access to Oxbridge is based on academic performance. AAB at a crappy state college is a better "academic performance" than AAAA at a private school.

With so many collages boasting a high number of state school entrants, it would seem that this balance has been re-adjusted by "ignoring" people with just as good grades from public schools, where, lets face it we still have to write the same things in the exams to get the grades!
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happysunshine
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#124
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#124
(Original post by fishpaste)
Ever seen a bad sixth form? One of the ones I applied to don't allow students to do more than 3 ASes. A friend of mine from high school went there with the same GCSEs as me, I got AAAAB at AS level, she got BBD. Some of them have god awful teaching. If Oxbridge were really going to make comparisons between those students and the private schoolers without any sort of 'handicap', then they're really not going to have a chance in hell, even if they magically got 100%, AAA is never going to beat AAAAA or the standard at a private school.

What about STEP? Private schools often coach students taking STEP, alot of state colleges have never heard of STEP.
I've seen a bad sixth forms but it's not like secondary school... you can choose where you want to study, you're old enough to decide without your parents doing it for you. I still fail to see (even though I'm adament that I've seen bad sixth forms/schools) that anyone can really fail unless they want to. Sure it's likely I will get 1 grade below a private educated pupil (GCSEs, but I'm going to be careful for selecting the right institution) but that's partly my fault and the fact that I'm not at a private school.
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fishpaste
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#125
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#125
(Original post by defec8ing)
With so many collages boasting a high number of state school entrants, it would seem that this balance has been re-adjusted by "ignoring" people with just as good grades from public schools, where, lets face it we still have to write the same things in the exams to get the grades!
It's not about getting a quota of some group into Oxbridge. It's about making sure that the people who deserve to get in, do get in.

What evidence do you have to suggest that people who are "just as good" from public schools are losing out places because of inferior applicants from state schools? It sounds like a rather paranoid unfounded idea.

I never said public school exams are magically easier, i'm saying you had access to better resources, better teaching, so found it easier to get the top grades.
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happysunshine
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#126
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#126
(Original post by happysunshine)
(GCSEs, but I'm going to be careful for selecting the right institution)
A-Levels that is.
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fishpaste
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#127
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#127
(Original post by happysunshine)
I've seen a bad sixth forms but it's not like secondary school... you can choose where you want to study, you're old enough to decide without your parents doing it for you. I still fail to see (even though I'm adament that I've seen bad sixth forms/schools) that anyone can really fail unless they want to. Sure it's likely I will get 1 grade below a private educated pupil (GCSEs, but I'm going to be careful for selecting the right institution) but that's partly my fault and the fact that I'm not at a private school.
Where do you live? I think you're a bit out of touch with how bad it gets. It's not practical for people to travel 2.5 hours across Manchester then 2.5 hours back across Manchester just to goto a good institution everyday. Furthermore, all the good ones in Manchester are religious institutions, so if you're not into that you're rather screwed.

Also, colleges will LIE to you, "Come to MANCAT! We are really kick ass! We have like computers and everything!"
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defec8ing
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#128
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#128
(Original post by fishpaste)
It's not about getting a quota of some group into Oxbridge. It's about making sure that the people who deserve to get in, do get in.

What evidence do you have to suggest that people who are "just as good" from public schools are losing out places because of inferior applicants from state schools? It sounds like a rather paranoid unfounded idea.

I never said public school exams are magically easier, i'm saying you had access to better resources, better teaching, so found it easier to get the top grades.

I know poeple who are predicted 4A's with lots of charity work under their belt, who have applied to collages which their parents went to, only to be turned down, whilst we also hear of people from inner city comprehensives getting offers which on the surface appear to be due to the need for increasing numbers of people from certain backgrounds/minorities!

we may recieve better pastoral care, whoever we all still rely upon revision books and other sources to allow us to preform well on the day, lets have none of this "spoon-feeding" tripe
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happysunshine
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#129
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#129
(Original post by fishpaste)
Where do you live? I think you're a bit out of touch with how bad it gets. It's not practical for people to travel 2.5 hours across Manchester then 2.5 hours back across Manchester just to goto a good institution everyday. Furthermore, all the good ones in Manchester are religious institutions, so if you're not into that you're rather screwed.

Also, colleges will LIE to you, "Come to MANCAT! We are really kick ass! We have like computers and everything!"
I'm not telling you where I live but I'm sure it's just as good as Manchester. Well I'm not sure if I believe the 2 1/2 hours accross Manchester, I know it's very big (I've seen so too) but anyway you live there. If you're clever enough then you will search or put more work in. There is no other solution.
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fishpaste
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#130
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#130
(Original post by defec8ing)
I know poeple who are predicted 4A's with lots of charity work under their belt, who have applied to collages which their parents went to, only to be turned down, whilst we also hear of people from inner city comprehensives getting offers which on the surface appear to be due to the need for increasing numbers of people from certain backgrounds/minorities!

we may recieve better pastoral care, whoever we all still rely upon revision books and other sources to allow us to preform well on the day, lets have none of this "spoon-feeding" tripe
4 As and charity work is not special. It shows absolutely no outstanding quality relative to Oxbridge applicants. 4 As (or near) along side all the problems that bad state schoolers face is quite 'interesting.' It is nothing to do with filling quotas because they don't exist.

You really are not going to convince me that teaching is no better in the private sector than the state sector.
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Joey_Johns
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#131
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#131
(Original post by happysunshine)
I'm not telling you where I live but I'm sure it's just as good as Manchester. Well I'm not sure if I believe the 2 1/2 hours accross Manchester, I know it's very big (I've seen so too) but anyway you live there. If you're clever enough then you will search or put more work in. There is no other solution.
Have you seen Nicole Kidmans new hairstyle? Ouch!
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fishpaste
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#132
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#132
(Original post by happysunshine)
I'm not telling you where I live but I'm sure it's just as good as Manchester. Well I'm not sure if I believe the 2 1/2 hours accross Manchester, I know it's very big (I've seen so too) but anyway you live there. If you're clever enough then you will search or put more work in. There is no other solution.

It takes 15 mins to get from my friend's house to Prestwich metrolink station. It takes 45 minutes to get from Bury to Crumpsall by metrolink (assuming a 6 minute wait for the met). It's then 45 minutes to Mosley Street (because the metrolink reduces speed in the city, and gets alot busier after Crumpsall). It takes 25 mins at rush hour to get from Manchester City Centre to College. 15 + 45 + 45 25 is just over 2 hours.

I highlight where you mention 'put more work in.' People do put more work in. You admit this, but you think they don't deserve to be rewarded for this?
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defec8ing
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#133
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#133
(Original post by fishpaste)
4 As and charity work is not special. It shows absolutely no outstanding quality relative to Oxbridge applicants. 4 As (or near) along side all the problems that bad state schoolers face is quite 'interesting.' It is nothing to do with filling quotas because they don't exist.

.
one chap i know applied to the collage with the least number of ethnic minorities, to the course with the least number of ehtnic minorities on it, and guess what! He got an offer of EE, how can you claim that there are no "quotas"?
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happysunshine
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#134
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(Original post by fishpaste)
It takes 15 mins to get from my friend's house to Prestwich metrolink station. It takes 45 minutes to get from Bury to Crumpsall by metrolink (assuming a 6 minute wait for the met). It's then 45 minutes to Mosley Street (because the metrolink reduces speed in the city, and gets alot busier after Crumpsall). It takes 25 mins at rush hour to get from Manchester City Centre to College. 15 + 45 + 45 25 is just over 2 hours.

I highlight where you mention 'put more work in.' People do put more work in. You admit this, but you think they don't deserve to be rewarded for this?
Yes and if they are clever enough then they should write a good personal statement and hopefully get an interview at a good university. Although I accept that the awareness of good universities at bad schools probably isn't that good.
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fishpaste
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#135
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#135
(Original post by defec8ing)
one chap i know applied to the collage with the least number of ethnic minorities, to the course with the least number of ehtnic minorities on it, and guess what! He got an offer of EE, how can you claim that there are no "quotas"?
I'm glad to see you are using informed, conclusive evidence in your arguments. That really does undermine the basic fact that they don't have quotas. They don't even have subject quotas apart from medical subjects.
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defec8ing
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#136
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#136
(Original post by fishpaste)
I'm glad to see you are using informed, conclusive evidence in your arguments. That really does undermine the basic fact that they don't have quotas. They don't even have subject quotas apart from medical subjects.

purely out of interest, where are you currently studying at the moment? I understand that you come from a state educated background, have you yourself recieved an offer from oxbridge? (appologies if this has been mentioned earlier, and i have failed to pick up on it!)
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fishpaste
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#137
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(Original post by happysunshine)
Yes and if they are clever enough then they should write a good personal statement and hopefully get an interview at a good university. Although I accept that the awareness of good universities at bad schools probably isn't that good.
And their superior academic record should just be neglected?

Two people, same interview, same personal statement, same grades, except one person had to get those grades at Eton, and the other at Crappington College for Disruptive Idiots. Are you saying that the second person should not have their superior academic background taken into account?
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fishpaste
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#138
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#138
(Original post by defec8ing)
purely out of interest, where are you currently studying at the moment? I understand that you come from a state educated background, have you yourself recieved an offer from oxbridge? (appologies if this has been mentioned earlier, and i have failed to pick up on it!)
I'm studying at a state catholic college (http://www.xaverian.ac.uk) in South Manchester. I have an offer for Maths at Clare College, Cambridge. The offer is AAB + Step1,2.
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defec8ing
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#139
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(Original post by fishpaste)
I'm studying at a state catholic college (http://www.xaverian.ac.uk) in South Manchester. I have an offer for Maths at Clare College, Cambridge. The offer is AAB + Step1,2.
Good on you! we don't have this step system at our school, what does it entail?
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fishpaste
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#140
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#140
(Original post by defec8ing)
Good on you! we don't have this step system at our school, what does it entail?
It's a particularly difficult maths exam which Warwick and Cambridge use to distinguish between the A grade candidates.

http://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad...text/text.html
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