descrimination and the art of public school bashing Watch

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Joey_Johns
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#141
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#141
(Original post by fishpaste)
I'm studying at a state catholic college (http://www.xaverian.ac.uk) in South Manchester. I have an offer for Maths at Clare College, Cambridge. The offer is AAB + Step1,2.
We had some people from your school and other state catholic schools in and around Lancs/Manc come to my school one year in a 'debate' thing. Wouldnt be surprised if some of our brothers have visited your school in the past, all catholic schools seem to love inviting them, meaning we had supply teachers on random days.
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fishpaste
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#142
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#142
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
We had some people from your school and other state catholic schools in and around Lancs/Manc come to my school one year in a 'debate' thing. Wouldnt be surprised if some of our brothers have visited your school in the past, all catholic schools seem to love inviting them, meaning we had supply teachers on random days.
Was it the Rotarian/Catenian public speaking competition? We seem to be pretty good at it, I know our candidate won this year. Though personally I think ours was pretty rubbish.

We have paintings of various brothers around, maybe we have some of yours. I'm rather surprised you still have brothers, we used to, but the last ones left a few years ago, the catholic influences are still very present though.
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Joey_Johns
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#143
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#143
(Original post by fishpaste)
Was it the Rotarian/Catenian public speaking competition? We seem to be pretty good at it, I know our candidate won this year. Though personally I think ours was pretty rubbish.

We have paintings of various brothers around, maybe we have some of yours. I'm rather surprised you still have brothers, we used to, but the last ones left a few years ago, the catholic influences are still very present though.
No idea what it was called. You can just tell when there are state schoolers wondering about the school, its all the news.

Lol. My two old schools are probably the most famous catholic schools in the country. Ampleforth is by far the most traditional now though, they love the brothers
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fishpaste
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#144
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#144
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
No idea what it was called. You can just tell when there are state schoolers wondering about the school, its all the news.

Lol. My two old schools are probably the most famous catholic schools in the country. Ampleforth is by far the most traditional now though, they love the brothers
I can imagine.

We do termly retreats to Ampleforth.
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Joey_Johns
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#145
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#145
(Original post by fishpaste)
I can imagine.

We do termly retreats to Ampleforth.
lol. Seen as there was a severe lack of girls at my school were more than welcoming of girls staying over night for comps. We had competitions to see who could pull the most. One of my friends did 5 on the same day lol.

I had 5 happy years at Ampleforth when I was a wee nipper
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Faboba
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#146
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#146
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
lol. Seen as there was a severe lack of girls at my school were more than welcoming of girls staying over night for comps. We had competitions to see who could pull the most. One of my friends did 5 on the same day lol.

I had 5 happy years at Ampleforth when I was a wee nipper
He did five in the same day? Must be some amount of slappers in your neck of the woods.
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Joey_Johns
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#147
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#147
(Original post by Faboba)
He did five in the same day? Must be some amount of slappers in your neck of the woods.
Yes, they were state schoolers

Dont get anywhere with public school girls fast unfortunatly, especially at my school with a ratio of about 1 girl for every 9/10 boys.
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TheWolf
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#148
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#148
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
Yes, they were state schoolers

Dont get anywhere with public school girls fast unfortunatly, especially at my school with a ratio of about 1 girl for every 9/10 boys.
lol really?

in mine, there is 60% boys 40% girls
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hildabeast
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#149
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#149
(Original post by fishpaste)
I can imagine.

We do termly retreats to Ampleforth.
My old 6th form college in Preston was Catholic and they ran retreats to Ampleforth all the time. I know what you mean about the whole teacher-sharing thing. All Catholic schools in the area seem to have really good links.
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Joey_Johns
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#150
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#150
(Original post by hildabeast)
My old 6th form college in Preston was Catholic and they ran retreats to Ampleforth all the time. I know what you mean about the whole teacher-sharing thing. All Catholic schools in the area seem to have really good links.
All Hallows?
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hildabeast
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#151
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#151
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
All Hallows?
No, that's only an 11 - 16 school. I didn't actually go there even though it's round the corner from me and loads of my friends went there. My sixth form college is Cardinal Newman.
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Joey_Johns
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#152
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#152
(Original post by hildabeast)
No, that's only an 11 - 16 school. I didn't actually go there even though it's round the corner from me and loads of my friends went there. My sixth form college is Cardinal Newman.
Never heard of that one. I dont really have any friends from Preston Schools, just ex Longridge high near there really.
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RedCat6
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#153
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#153
A quick point about the grades debate earlier in this thread. It has been argued that a state school student with three As at A level should be considered to have done better than a private school student with three As at A level. This is ridiculous. I am a teacher who has worked in both the private and state sector. Two students receiving all As at A level have done exactly the same. The same amount of work on behalf of the student is required. To suggest otherwise is to suggest that in private schools the student somehow has the work done for them. It is true that private schools have better resources, otherwise why would parents be willing to pay. However, good resources are not a gaurantee of academic success, that comes down to the student themselves. Private schools would all otherwise have a 100% pass rate of As at A level. They don't.
The arguments that exist about how inevitably a state educated student who gets all As must have overcome adversity in order to do so are also unfounded. I was state educated and still lived in a nice home with fairly well off parents and lots of support. To suggest that any state educated student needs to have their 'circumstances' taken into consideration is actually an insult to many. Equally, there may be privately educated students who have come through exams in the face of adversity, little support at home and family break down etc, yet they are still to be considered to have achieved their grades easily? Unless the system is going to start taking into account ALL mitigating circumstances when selecting students for University places, it is not fair to discriminate on the basis that one typ of school or another inevitabley means this or that. In addition to this, the grading system for A levels works on the basis of the level of achievement of the work. It does not grade on the basis of the route taken to get those A levels. To then start making distinctions about the 'quality' of a grade at a later stage makes the current grading system void.

RedCat
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house badger
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#154
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#154
Even though there may be exceptions you surely can't claim that as a general rule private school kids have an advantage over state school kids. Otherwise why would parents bother to send their kids there at considerable personal expense. Taking into account this advantage someone who is unable to access the privilege of a private education has done much better than someone who has and if they achieve the same grades it logically follows that they have a greater inate intelligence. Universities want the most capable students and so in order to do this it seems sensible, therefore, to give them an admissions advantage.

I recognise that giving state school students an advantage in admissions processes will result in unfairness for those whose exceptional circumstances mean that they have not benefitted from a private education but not discriminating leads to unfairness too, for the large majority of state educated students. Out of two imperfect systems favouring state school applicants is the better. You can't control all factors in the admissions process but the ones you can control in order to achieve greater fairness should be controlled. School background is one of these.
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Mark_KK
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#155
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#155
(Original post by quinnbrakes)
I realise that this is a fairly common theme on these boards and I apologuise to anyone who's heard the arguments over and over again but i think i need to get this off my chest.

I went to a public school. Before that i went to a prep school. Infact ive been boarding since i was seven and im really tired of having to say sorry about it.

The amount of abuse ive gotten over the years is completely unreal. The way people change around you as soon as you let slip you go to a public school. The guarded look in their eyes as they wait for you to say something arrogant. You might as well say u condone genocide. When i was asked while in cambridge for my interview i was made to feel like a complete monster.

Its even in college prospectuses. They boast about the highest number of state school applicants and link this with diversity and an exciting atmosphere. Surely private schools are more diverse as students dont necessarily come from a small geographic area? One of my best friends was on a state sponsorred scholarship from Thailand, two others were Russian. Most of my closest friends are 'public school boys' and the way the term is used you would think we were war criminals.

Then there is the issue of spoon feeding. I was never spoon fed anything in my life. I worked bloody hard to get my grades and i find it offensive that anyone should demean that by saying i simply bought them. I accept that some state schools are at a disadvantage in this area but i object to the scorn that is poured on my and others acheivements. The days of guareenteed places are long gone.

Infact my school officially advised students not to apply to Bristol or Kings, Cambridge because they would be descriminated against. Whether this is justified is arguable but the fact that they
do actually advise this must say something.

Im sorry but some of you on these boards should re read what you have said and try and think of it from the other side for a change.
LOL for years the boot was on the other foot with the public school brigade discriminating against the state schools.

Are we now experiencing "positive discrimination"?
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smaug
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#156
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#156
(Original post by house badger)
.....why would parents bother to send their kids there at considerable personal expense. ...............
Out of two imperfect systems favouring state school applicants is the better. You can't control all factors in the admissions process but the ones you can control in order to achieve greater fairness should be controlled. School background is one of these.
Well said House Badger!

RedCat6 is biased because he has sent his child to private school, and just like the people who go to private school, he is angry to think that the advantage they have bought might be whittled away if a policy of giving lower offers to state school people becomes widespread!
It would be quite funny actually, loads of rich kids from posh schools will start going to inner city comps in the sixth form and getting private tutors cos they cant cope !
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RedCat6
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#157
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#157
As a teacher who has experienced both systems I certainly can deny that someone who gets all As in one system is more intelligent than someone who gets all As in another. They are exactly the same, they both possess the ability to get all As. How they got to that point can only be a matter of gross speculation. Some students (in either system) are capable of getting good results with very little work, because of natural ability. Some students (in either system) have to work harder because they possess less inate ability. Should we start to discriminate between those who achieve easily and those who have to slog it out? Based on system where the only measure we have of how well someone has actually done is their grade, how do we discriminate? And in whose favour? Should those who have had to work harder get the better places, or those who found it easier? As discrimination on either basis is ridiculous, we should of course reward the result.
So called 'positive' discrimination is still discrimination and as such is completely unacceptable. Nobody who has worked hard and achieved good grades should be discriminated against. To do so is completely indefensible and tantamount to telling those on the receiving end of the negative discrimination that their personal achievements are deemed to mean nothing. It is also tantamount to saying to those in receipt of the 'positive' discrimination that they are charity cases who could not have managed to secure a place merely on the merit of doing well, which is equally insulting.

RedCat
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RedCat6
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#158
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#158
Smaug,

What a ridiculous and bigotted statement. For a start, I am not a 'he'. Secondly, I was state school educated myself and went on to University to do my degree and would have been horrified had I been 'positively' discriminated for instead of getting there on the basis of my own work and in open and full competition with all others. Thirdly, my opinions come from the fact that I am a teacher who has worked in both systems and have been able to assess the effort that both state and privately educated kids make when they are reaching for the best marks. I have the utmost respect and admiration for all hard working kids and for those who achieve to the best of their abilities. None of these kids should be told that because of some biased governmental sanction their grades are less valuable than someone elses. I would say exactly the same thing if the 'positive' discrimination were the other way round, or if it were for any other reason, for example, taking more female students onto a course that is traditionally male dominated on the basis of them being female and not because they have the highest grades. Discrimination is discrimination and bigotry is indefensible.

RedCat
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RedCat6
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#159
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#159
And you are crass. Can you think of nothing better to say? Are you not eloquent enough? I thought that this was a forum for the frank exchange of opinion and debate... based on actually knowing something. To swear at someone shows an inability to communicate. Get an education.

RedCat
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RedCat6
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#160
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#160
Lol. I am not going to be drawn into a juvenile slanging match with you. As far as I am concerned, this is not the purpose of the forum.

RedCat
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