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    (Original post by JonD)
    Yeah, that's my understanding of genetics too. Isn't the gene that makes Sickle Cell Anaemia(?) a possibility also the one that makes a lot of Africans immune to Malaria? You don't get anything for nothing, it seems.

    I don't think the world presently knows enough about genetics at the moment. It'd be dabbling to just "remove" genes that seem to have a negative side effect, and that act would have likely negative side effects of its own, that we cannot predict.

    Even if our scientists did know what they were doing, if the "removal" of genes from our genepool involves things as disgusting as forced sterilisation, I have absolutely no interest. I think Eugenics only caught off because of the Great Depression. It really was too expensive to keep disabled people alive then.

    Zooropa hasn't answered my earlier question about how he can justify calling himself a libertarian still, if he doesn't believe in individual rights.
    One thing people don't understand about eugenics, especially in this age where we can actually check if anyone has a specific gene, is that they could have several reccessive genes for genetic disorders and not know it. If people were determined enough, everyone that carried any 'imperfect genes' would be sterilised, even if they did not actually suffer fron any genetic disorders.
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    (Original post by JonD)
    Yeah, that's my understanding of genetics too. Isn't the gene that makes Sickle Cell Anaemia(?) a possibility also the one that makes a lot of Africans immune to Malaria? You don't get anything for nothing, it seems.

    I don't think the world presently knows enough about genetics at the moment. It'd be dabbling to just "remove" genes that seem to have a negative side effect, and that act would have likely negative side effects of its own, that we cannot predict.

    Even if our scientists did know what they were doing, if the "removal" of genes from our genepool involves things as disgusting as forced sterilisation, I have absolutely no interest. I think Eugenics only caught off because of the Great Depression. It really was too expensive to keep disabled people alive then.

    Zooropa hasn't answered my earlier question about how he can justify calling himself a libertarian still, if he doesn't believe in individual rights.
    Sickle Cell Anaemia can help with immunity to malaria (i cannot remember the exact details, but it is in its recessive form or something....)
    My personal preference for this matter would be for selection of foeti and implant by IVF treatment of those which do not posses the undesirable genetic mutations (so long as the test is for these defects ONLY).
    The result of this would be the people still being allowed to produce in a near to normal fashion, and therefore little disruption to their civil rights.
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    Sickle Cell Anaemia can help with immunity to malaria (i cannot remember the exact details, but it is in its recessive form or something....)
    My personal preference for this matter would be for selection of foeti and implant by IVF treatment of those which do not posses the undesirable genetic mutations (so long as the test is for these defects ONLY).
    The result of this would be the people still being allowed to produce in a near to normal fashion, and therefore little disruption to their civil rights.
    an undesirable genetic defect could be a cleft palette, something that doesn't cause any mental handicap at all and can be treated easily with surgery.
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    (Original post by juueru_chou)
    an undesirable genetic defect could be a cleft palette, something that doesn't cause any mental handicap at all and can be treated easily with surgery.
    Sorry - to clarify I believe that your example of a Cleft palette would be an unacceptable reason to warrant the said action - This is for serious disabilities in my opinion.

    I also wasn't aware that a cleft palette was a genetic disorder...hey ho...
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    (Original post by bikerx23)

    I also wasn't aware that a cleft palette was a genetic disorder...hey ho...
    Well, it is.
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    Sorry - to clarify I believe that your example of a Cleft palette would be an unacceptable reason to warrant the said action - This is for serious disabilities in my opinion.

    I also wasn't aware that a cleft palette was a genetic disorder...hey ho...
    Cleft lip would generally not be an acceptable reason - cleft palate, however, is another matter.
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    Sickle Cell Anaemia can help with immunity to malaria (i cannot remember the exact details, but it is in its recessive form or something....)
    My personal preference for this matter would be for selection of foeti and implant by IVF treatment of those which do not posses the undesirable genetic mutations (so long as the test is for these defects ONLY).
    The result of this would be the people still being allowed to produce in a near to normal fashion, and therefore little disruption to their civil rights.
    No, you have it wrong about sickel cell anaemia... there is no net health benefits of suffering from sickel cell anaemia it is a serious condition!!!

    Ok, sickel cell anaemia is a recessive genetic disorder, which means that you need both the alleles in order to have the disorder... Carriers have one recessive gene and one 'normal' gene... both are expressed, but carriers don't suffer since 1/2 the red blood cells are normal shape, which is sufficient

    If there is no benefit of being a carrier, eventually the recessive disorder is bred out of the population, as generally before modern medicine you did not live to reproductive age with a recessive condition such as sickel cell anaemia.

    Carriers of the sickel cell anaemia have resistance to malaria (they are not 'immune') and this has to do with the shape of the erythrocytes (red blood cells) due to the expression of the gene. The gene itself is a DNA double stranded molecule stuck in the nucleus of a cell... genes aren't important, it's the proteins that are coded by the genes that are... besides, red blood cells do not even contain a nucleus and do not have any DNA in at all!

    Anyway, i'm getting away from the main point, which is you only have sickel cell anaemia in places where there is malaria is present since it is only here where there is a benefit in being a carrier.
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    (Original post by Revenged)
    No, you have it wrong about sickel cell anaemia... there is no net health benefits of suffering from sickel cell anaemia it is a serious condition!!!

    Ok, sickel cell anaemia is a recessive genetic disorder, which means that you need both the alleles in order to have the disorder... Carriers have one recessive gene and one 'normal' gene... both are expressed, but carriers don't suffer since 1/2 the red blood cells are normal shape, which is sufficient

    If there is no benefit of being a carrier, eventually the recessive disorder is bred out of the population, as generally before modern medicine you did not live to reproductive age with a recessive condition such as sickel cell anaemia.

    Carriers of the sickel cell anaemia have resistance to malaria (they are not 'immune') and this has to do with the shape of the erythrocytes (red blood cells) due to the expression of the gene. The gene itself is a DNA double stranded molecule stuck in the nucleus of a cell... genes aren't important, it's the proteins that are coded by the genes that are... besides, red blood cells do not even contain a nucleus and do not have any DNA in at all!

    Anyway, i'm getting away from the main point, which is you only have sickel cell anaemia in places where there is malaria is present since it is only here where there is a benefit in being a carrier.
    But that is what he said:

    "Sickle Cell Anaemia can help with immunity to malaria (i cannot remember the exact details, but it is in its recessive form or something....)"
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    sort of - mine was a bit vague, but what mr bold said is what I can recall...
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    (Original post by spk)
    But that is what he said:

    "Sickle Cell Anaemia can help with immunity to malaria (i cannot remember the exact details, but it is in its recessive form or something....)"
    immunity mean you have antibodies or killer white blood cells against a particular pathogen (disease causing microbe) and thus if you ever picked up the disease you would fight it

    this is entirely different to having resistance against a disease due to the shape of red blood cells - you have no immune responce...

    the reason for this resistance is that the virus cannot replicate in sickel cells and thus you have some resistance, but in a carrier half the cells are normal and so you can still get malaria


    and it's only beneficial when someone is a carrier, when they have sickel cell anaemia they are suffering from a servere condtition, there are NO health benefits of having a serious genetic disorder!
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    Its biologically impossible to eradicate traits there's a genetic principal based on it.
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    (Original post by frost105)
    Its biologically impossible to eradicate traits there's a genetic principal based on it.
    lol, natural selection is all about eradication of unfavourable traits because there is a selection pressure against them... you just have to wait long enough, it will perhaps take thousands of years
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    (Original post by Revenged)
    immunity mean you have antibodies or killer white blood cells against a particular pathogen (disease causing microbe) and thus if you ever picked up the disease you would fight it

    this is entirely different to having resistance against a disease due to the shape of red blood cells - you have no immune responce...

    the reason for this resistance is that the virus cannot replicate in sickel cells and thus you have some resistance, but in a carrier half the cells are normal and so you can still get malaria


    and it's only beneficial when someone is a carrier, when they have sickel cell anaemia they are suffering from a servere condtition, there are NO health benefits of having a serious genetic disorder!
    Yes, but you really are just being a bit picky - what the other guy said was more-or-less correct, for a layperson.
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    (Original post by JonD)

    Even if our scientists did know what they were doing, if the "removal" of genes from our genepool involves things as disgusting as forced sterilisation, I have absolutely no interest. I think Eugenics only caught off because of the Great Depression. It really was too expensive to keep disabled people alive then.
    What's wrong with eugenics? Chavs, ne'er do wells and scallies don't deserve to have children.
    Zooropa hasn't answered my earlier question about how he can justify calling himself a libertarian still, if he doesn't believe in individual rights.
    What's libertarian views got to do with this?
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    (Original post by zooropa)
    What's libertarian views got to do with this?
    Quite a lot - don't you know what libertarian means?
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    I do know. You tell me what it means.
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    (Original post by zooropa)
    I do know. You tell me what it means.
    No. You tell me.
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    Why?

    true, but if it is the sole defining factor you must have led a life that none could envy
    Envy? I don't envy disabled people who think they should have children.
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    (Original post by zooropa)
    What's wrong with eugenics? Chavs, ne'er do wells and scallies don't deserve to have children.

    What's libertarian views got to do with this?
    What hasn't it got to do with this? I think it's quite obvious that someone taking it upon themselves to dictate not only the sex life of other people, but the right to life that individuals have in the first place, is going to have a hard time also following the ideas of a group of people that regularly draw scenarios up like that as examples of hell-on-earth.

    How can you maximise individual freedom at the same time as sterilising "chavs" because you don't like the way they look or dress?
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    (Original post by Elles)
    now that's just unimaginative! surely you can think of some balanced polymorphism-esque selection advantages from the Huntington allele? did B.S. not give you his theory? :p:
    Now I have to say I don't recall any theory on Huntingtons, which means either a) he didn't tell us, b) I was not listening (by far the most likely )

    But let's use that imagination - perhaps the disease serves to speed up the death of the oldies of society, meaning they can't be a drain on the young'uns; but thats a very population based theory, on the individual level it's not so compelling. It could just be down to being a common repeat mistake, one that minor negative selective pressures have not yet ironed out.
 
 
 
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