The Student Room Group

Hard M1 Stuff - please help

AT 12 noon the position vectors r and the velocity vectors v of two ships A and B are

rA = (2i + j) Km vA = (3i + j) Kmh^-1
rB = (-i -4j) Km vB = (11i + 3j) Kmh^-1

a) Show that at time t h after noon the position vector of B relative to A is given by

[(8t-3)i + (2t-5)j] Km

b) Show that the distance d Km between the vessels, at this time, is given by

d^2 = 68[t^2 - t + 1/2]

c) Hence show that the ships are nearest together at 12.30 p.m. and find the distance between them at this time.

My teacher says this is one of the hardest questions you get at M1 - i am sure there is a specific method or formula you use for these equations - could someone please explain each step they do so i understand for the future.

Regards, Asad
Reply 1
asadtamimi

I hope this is correct.
Reply 2
asadtamimi
AT 12 noon the position vectors r and the velocity vectors v of two ships A and B are

rA = (2i + j) Km vA = (3i + j) Kmh^-1
rB = (-i -4j) Km vB = (11i + 3j) Kmh^-1

a) Show that at time t h after noon the position vector of B relative to A is given by

[(8t-3)i + (2t-5)j] Km

So the position of each is given by its starting position plus its velocity*time

Position A = (2i + j + 3ti + tj)
Position B = (-i - 4j + 11ti + 3tj)

The position of B relative to A is Position B - Position A
= (-i - 4j + 11ti + 3tj) - (2i + j + 3ti + tj)
= -3i - 5j + 8ti + 2tj
= [(8t-3)i + (2t-5)j]

asadtamimi

b) Show that the distance d Km between the vessels, at this time, is given by

d^2 = 68[t^2 - t + 1/2]


Just use Pythagorus, using i and j as side lengths, thus:
Distance² = (8t-3)² + (2t-5)²
Distance² = 64t² - 48t + 9 + 4t² - 20t + 25
Distance² = 68t² -68t + 34
Distance² = 68(t² - t + ½)

asadtamimi

c) Hence show that the ships are nearest together at 12.30 p.m. and find the distance between them at this time.


Now we have an equation we can differentiate for highest time, so:

f(x) = 68t² - 68t + 34
f'(x) = 136t - 68
136t - 68 = 0
t = ½

So closest position is after ½ an hour, so at 12.30

Then insert back into equation for the distance, not forgetting to square root. :smile:
a)Position vector A at time t
-> (2i+j)+(3i+j)t
-> (3t+2)i + (t+1)j

Postion vector B at time t
-> (-i -4j) + (11i + 3j)t
-> (11t-1)i + (3t-4)j

RB-RA
(11t-1)i + (3t-4)j
-
(3t+2)i + (t+1)j
------------------
[ (8t-3)i + (2t-5)j ] Km

b) d2 = (8t-3)2 + (2t-5) 2
d2 = 64t2 -48t+9+4t2 -20t +25
d2= 68t2-68t+34
d2= 68[t2-t+½]

c)the minumum point is t= -b/2a (ax2+bx+c)

t= -(-68)/(2*68) = ½
So they are closest ½ hr after noon, at 12:30 pm....

To find the distance sub. 0.5 in d2= 68[t2-t+½]-
d2= 68[0.52-0.5+½]
d2= 17
d= 4.12 km
Reply 4
Libertine
So the position of each is given by its starting position plus its velocity*time

Position A = (2i + j + 3ti + tj)
Position B = (-i - 4j + 11ti + 3tj)

The position of B relative to A is Position B - Position A
= (-i - 4j + 11ti + 3tj) - (2i + j + 3ti + tj)
= -3i - 5j + 8ti + 2tj
= [(8t-3)i + (2t-5)j]



Just use Pythagorus, using i and j as side lengths, thus:
Distance² = (8t-3)² + (2t-5)²
Distance² = 64t² - 48t + 9 + 4t² - 20t + 25
Distance² = 68t² -68t + 34
Distance² = 68(t² - t + ½)



Now we have an equation we can differentiate for highest time, so:

f(x) = 68t² - 68t + 34
f'(x) = 136t - 68
136t - 68 = 0
t = ½

So closest position is after ½ an hour, so at 12.30

Then insert back into equation for the distance, not forgetting to square root. :smile:


mm thats the thing i havent done differentiation yet and when i tried to teach myself i didnt understand it - anyone know any good sites?

--------------

By the way thanks all of you for your posts - all have been helpful :biggrin:
Reply 5
asadtamimi


By the way thanks all of you for your posts - all have been helpful :biggrin:


You don't need to use differentiation. Complete the square... the minimum is when the bit inside the bracket is zero.

In this case (t - ½)².... so t = ½
Reply 6
asadtamimi
mm thats the thing i havent done differentiation yet and when i tried to teach myself i didnt understand it - anyone know any good sites?

You don't have to use differentiation, Steve's method worked just as well.

All you need to do is find the minimum point on the graph:
So, t²-t+½ = (t-½)² + ¼

Hopefully you can see this means the lowest point must be ½

Edit: I see Steve's also written this
Reply 7
Libertine
You don't have to use differentiation, Steve's method worked just as well.


Great minds think alike.
Reply 8
oh yes after seeing steves post i remembered that minimum point can be achieved by completing the square but i was just wondering as an off topic any good sites for differentiation as it will be useful for my C1 exam
My tutor taught us another method...mush easier if you're in hurry. It always works.

minimum point= -b/2a
Reply 10
asadtamimi
oh yes after seeing steves post i remembered that minimum point can be achieved by completing the square but i was just wondering as an off topic any good sites for differentiation as it will be useful for my C1 exam


Try MathNet
http://www.mathsnet.net/asa2/2004/c15b.html
Try www.s-cool.co.uk ...looks very childish but explains things very clearly.
Reply 12
mizfissy815
My tutor taught us another method...mush easier if you're in hurry. It always works.

minimum point= -b/2a


where the t^2 = a and t = b?

Also seeing as you guys are smart at maths (or this stuff anyway) on vectors :wink: can you answer part c of the question i posted on this thread

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/t174237.html
Reply 13
mizfissy815
Try www.s-cool.co.uk ...looks very childish but explains things very clearly.


yes it was clear - thanks a lot
Reply 14
You'll be glad to know, M1 doesn't require differentiation :smile: (Although using differ. is a far quicker method... and leans more towards the 'general-formula' type method, you mentioned.)
where the t^2 = a and t = b?


yep....ax2+bx+c