This discussion is closed.
hitchhiker_13
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#41
Report 16 years ago
#41
I don't like public schools, but at the same time I don't know if abolishing them would be fair, as I'm not sure abolishing private hospitals would be fair.
It's terribel being able to see both sides of an argument; it makes it so difficult to reach a conclusion about anything!
I don't think I would send my children to a public school.
0
Suzy_vet
Badges: 0
#42
Report 16 years ago
#42
(Original post by amexblack)
And what exactly has this to do with ...


Please clarify exactly which facilities the public schools are depriving you of. As I've already said, it's not the sports facilities. It's not that our teachers are any better than yours either. So what is it? We are not depriving you of anything, if anything we are subsidising you.

'We' and 'you'. you make it sound like state and public school people are a different species. you are practically proving the split. Having said that i must say that private schools do not deprive people of good facilities. Unfortunately state schools do not have the money, where as private schools do. its all a matter of funding or the lack of it.
0
kildare
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#43
Report 16 years ago
#43
(Original post by Tek)
Well obviously I expect a teacher to try to deal with the situation rather than "do nothing" - otherwise why would they have become a teacher?
Well yes quite. I think the important point however is what situation would a teacher usually be more willing to teach in.

One where the students are all A grade material, the facilities are great and the pay is handsome (comparitively) or one where most will struggle to even pass their G.C.S.E's and crowd control is a big a part of 'teaching' as the actual teaching itself?
0
fishpaste
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#44
Report 16 years ago
#44
(Original post by Tek)
Um, I dealt with that at the bottom of page 2.
No, you really didn't.

Yes, a teacher who can run a class for a bunch of delinquents is a better teacher, but as soon as they're recognised as talented as a teacher, they're poached. See my example of Bury College and my college.
0
Tek
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#45
Report 16 years ago
#45
(Original post by kildare)
Well yes quite. I think the important point however is what situation would a teacher usually be more willing to teach in.

One where the students are all A grade material, the facilities are great and the pay is handsome (comparitively) or one where most will struggle to even pass their G.C.S.E's and crowd control is a big a part of 'teaching' as the actual teaching itself?
Isn't teaching about a rewarding experience, not material gain? And which situation is more rewarding, do you think?
0
hitchhiker_13
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#46
Report 16 years ago
#46
So maybe you should bring back the 11+?
Still stream students, no fees.
(Just making a suggestion, not necessarily saying I agree with it.)
0
kildare
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#47
Report 16 years ago
#47
(Original post by Tek)
Isn't teaching about a rewarding experience, not material gain? And which situation is more rewarding, do you think?
Some teachers will indeed think like that. Most won't however, hence the fact that the 'better' teachers (at least one would assume they are better seen as there is much more competition for each posistion) are usually found in the private sector.
0
fishpaste
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#48
Report 16 years ago
#48
(Original post by Tek)
Isn't teaching about a rewarding experience, not material gain? And which situation is more rewarding, do you think?
Teachers aren't that committed in my experience, my business studies teacher told me she was leaving for just that reason. Wanted a quiet life in a nice school full of people who were intent on As where she could eat her lunch in the fields, and not a concrete palace full of people who want to draw pictures of spliffs all over their books.
0
Suzy_vet
Badges: 0
#49
Report 16 years ago
#49
Yes, well, they still have 11+ in bucks and its all well and good until someone who should pass has a bad day. I was never going to pass at the age of 11, i couldnt do verbal reasoning. luckily i was on the border with oxfordshire so luckily got into a comp. 7 years later ive got a place at cam. it is NOT a fault proof system. plus, you would need a lot more money again. i dont think it would be easy at all to just abolish private schools.
0
hitchhiker_13
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#50
Report 16 years ago
#50
Well depending on your viewpoint, we're quite lucky or unlucky here in Northern Ireland, as public schools don't really exist.
0
Tnacilppa
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#51
Report 16 years ago
#51
I think that the fundamental point being missed by the "abolitionists" (as I like to call them) is this: BY GETTING RID OF PRIVATE SCHOOLS, YOU WILL NOT BE HELPING ANYONE HAVE A BETTER EDUCATION.

It is that simple.

Yes - those who would have had a better education will be disadvantaged but nobody (absolutely nobody) will benefit. In fact, as previously mentioned, the state-schools themselves would suffer.

I hope that's established because all the ranting and raving about how public schools are depriving state-school kids of a good education is so misinformed and irritating. The opposite is true - our parent's tax funds state run schools.

Besides, where do we draw the line? Is it *unfair* that some people are richer than others? Maybe we should become a communist state and have everyone suffer. At least then the abolitionists could be happy in the knowledge that everyone is suffering their mediocrity.

Teachers have the choice as to where they want to work. The majority of teachers at my (public) school have left-wing sympathies - they would not feel offended by working in a state-school. However, they object to unmotivated, lazy and agressive pupils. You don't get these at private schools. They are entitled to choose their place of work. In the same way, private schools are within their rights to offer teachers as much money as they want. At my school, the staff get an annual salary increase to encourage continuity. Surely this could happen in the state-sector? However, I for one, would not accept an extra 5k to be surrounded by laziness, incompetence aggression every day.

Adam
0
amexblack
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#52
Report 16 years ago
#52
(Original post by hitchhiker_13)
I don't think I would send my children to a public school.
May I ask why? For the same reasons, would you not purchase BUPA healthcare for your children?

Public schools offer the best all round education to children. I don't think anyone is denying that. If you have the means, I can see no valid reason why not to send one's children there. I would want the best for my children, and if that means spending hundreds of thousands, so be it.
0
fishpaste
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#53
Report 16 years ago
#53
Seriously, where did you actually counterargue that teachers are not poached by the private sector? All that you've successfully done is confirmed my point that teachers would choose to work in the private sector because why would they want to teach lazy, unmotivated students?
0
Suzy_vet
Badges: 0
#54
Report 16 years ago
#54
Im not the one who originally said it, but i would have serious reservations about sending my kids to private school, even more so boarding school, simply becasue i do not think it would prepare them properly for life in the real world. When you leave school, not everyone has money, things are not always there if you need them and not everone is kind, motivated and non-aggresive. you have to learn to deal with these things, otherwise when you come across them in real life they are a shock.

I feel happy in the fact that i have had contact with a wide range of people already, not all of them by any means nice, which i think will set me up well as a vet surgeon. I have a good idea of how to deal with them, and why people are as they are. I also look forward to going to cambridge now having had this experience, to meet new people who share my enthusiasm for academic work! I havent been in contact with many at school, but it hasnt done me much harm.
0
Tnacilppa
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#55
Report 16 years ago
#55
(Original post by Suzy_vet)
Im not the one who originally said it, but i would have serious reservations about sending my kids to private school, even more so boarding school, simply becasue i do not think it would prepare them properly for life in the real world. When you leave school, not everyone has money, things are not always there if you need them and not everone is kind, motivated and non-aggresive. you have to learn to deal with these things, otherwise when you come across them in real life they are a shock.

I feel happy in the fact that i have had contact with a wide range of people already, not all of them by any means nice, which i think will set me up well as a vet surgeon. I have a good idea of how to deal with them, and why people are as they are. I also look forward to going to cambridge now having had this experience, to meet new people who share my enthusiasm for academic work! I havent been in contact with many at school, but it hasnt done me much harm.
I hate to say it but this argument is pretty much as flawed as they come. Would you let your child speak to heroin pushers because you don't want them to be in "shock" when they find out that such things go on?

During out younger (formative) years we are easily influenced - even strong minded children. I think that by sending them to a school where courtesy, hard work and dedication are promoted your are equipping them far better for dealing with these problems later. A child amongst disruptive pupils is more likely to become disruptive him/herself.

I have been at a private school all my life but I have done voluntary service (compulsary at some point during one's school career). I know that there are under-privileged people out there. This doesn't mean I need to become under-privileged myself to be able to understand them.

Adam
0
smaug
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#56
Report 16 years ago
#56
(Original post by Tnacilppa)
I think that the fundamental point being missed by the "abolitionists" (as I like to call them) is this: BY GETTING RID OF PRIVATE SCHOOLS, YOU WILL NOT BE HELPING ANYONE HAVE A BETTER EDUCATION.

Disagree.


1. If we got rid of private schools then ppl from these schools would no longer have an advantage in getting into elite universities, so entry would be more down to merit, and more deserving ppl would get in.

2. There are shortages of teachers in some subjects like maths and physics. Private schools use up a greedy amount of teachers with their small classes! So there would be more shortage subject teachers to go around.

3. Private school pupils almost always come from caring homes with ambitious parents. These pupils would increase the proportion of conscientious ppl and would be an asset to any state school and help to improve standards of hard work and behaviour! This improves the standard of education for everybody.

4. Most rich and powerful ppl send their children to private school (though I know not evryone with children at private school is rich or powerful). If these ppl had their children at the local comp, just imaginehow they would work to improve it! . The New and Improved quality of the Fundraising Events alone would be stunning. Bad heads would be sacked. Graffitti would be removed. Prizes awarded.
Instruments and sports kit provided. Troublemakers transported :rolleyes:
0
chocorange
Badges: 0
#57
Report 16 years ago
#57
I don't understand why anyone would not want the best for their children. Why would anyone _not_ want to send their children to private school?
0
amexblack
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#58
Report 16 years ago
#58
(Original post by Suzy_vet)
'We' and 'you'. you make it sound like state and public school people are a different species. you are practically proving the split. Having said that i must say that private schools do not deprive people of good facilities. Unfortunately state schools do not have the money, where as private schools do. its all a matter of funding or the lack of it.
I am using we and you to avoid constant and labourous repetition of "public school" and "state school". It also makes it clear who is on which side of the argument. And how on earth does it imply that public school children are of a different species? I'm afraid I don't know what you mean when you say "you are practically proving the split." Is this split not obvious anyway? I hardly think it takes anyone to prove that there is a difference between the two.
0
Ben.S.
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#59
Report 16 years ago
#59
(Original post by amexblack)
I am using we and you to avoid constant and labourous repetition of "public school" and "state school". It also makes it clear who is on which side of the argument. And how on earth does it imply that public school children are of a different species? I'm afraid I don't know what you mean when you say "you are practically proving the split." Is this split not obvious anyway? I hardly think it takes anyone to prove that there is a difference between the two.
What is this 'split' - what are the defining traits of both parties?

Ben
0
Suzy_vet
Badges: 0
#60
Report 16 years ago
#60
If you stuck me ( state comp) and some of my friends from grammar school and some others i know from private school in a room, and told them to have a discussion, i honestly dont think you would be able to tell the difference. Im trying to make the point that people talk as if there is a huge split sometimes, and that state school people who are obviously not up to it are let into top uni just cause they are from state schools. People can be and are of the same standard and higher from state schools compared with those at private school, they just often have to work harder to get there. If anything, they understand what it is to achieve more.

What do you think of the fact that more state school people achieve 1st class degrees at ox and cam than private school? I would suggest this either means that state school pupils work harder, or have more natural intelligence behind their grades.
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Has your university offer been reduced?

Yes (8)
26.67%
No (18)
60%
Don't know (4)
13.33%

Watched Threads

View All