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Suzy_vet
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Tnacilppa)
I hate to say it but this argument is pretty much as flawed as they come. Would you let your child speak to heroin pushers because you don't want them to be in "shock" when they find out that such things go on?

During out younger (formative) years we are easily influenced - even strong minded children. I think that by sending them to a school where courtesy, hard work and dedication are promoted your are equipping them far better for dealing with these problems later. A child amongst disruptive pupils is more likely to become disruptive him/herself.

I have been at a private school all my life but I have done voluntary service (compulsary at some point during one's school career). I know that there are under-privileged people out there. This doesn't mean I need to become under-privileged myself to be able to understand them.

Adam
You have the most encredibly false opinion that all state schools are t=bad! I think this proves the point that you really dont have a clue outside of your own school.

Of course i want my kids to go to a GOOD school, who the hell wouldnt? Accept the fact that there are excellent schools out there that do not require thousands of pounds a term. They have good teachers, good students, fairly good facilities. Kids need to be around people to see what other people, different people, are like.

Why are you talking about heroin addicts? thats an entirely different thing. if you think there are heroin addcits at every school you are seriously bizare. My school is not knoe of the cbest state schools by a long shot, and there was a stage when i realised there was cannabis around. I just avoided it. you have to learn to say no to what you dont wnat, other wise you get pushed around.

Anywya, from what i hear the £10000 a year private school up the road has far worse drug problems cause all the students have too much money, its just the teachers either dont realise or dont want anyone to know, would look far too bad.
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Tnacilppa
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Suzy_vet)
You have the most encredibly false opinion that all state schools are t=bad! I think this proves the point that you really dont have a clue outside of your own school.

Of course i want my kids to go to a GOOD school, who the hell wouldnt? Accept the fact that there are excellent schools out there that do not require thousands of pounds a term. They have good teachers, good students, fairly good facilities. Kids need to be around people to see what other people, different people, are like.

Why are you talking about heroin addicts? thats an entirely different thing. if you think there are heroin addcits at every school you are seriously bizare. My school is not knoe of the cbest state schools by a long shot, and there was a stage when i realised there was cannabis around. I just avoided it. you have to learn to say no to what you dont wnat, other wise you get pushed around.

Anywya, from what i hear the £10000 a year private school up the road has far worse drug problems cause all the students have too much money, its just the teachers either dont realise or dont want anyone to know, would look far too bad.
I think you got the wrong end of the stick on the whole drug thing. I wasn't suggesting that there are drug problems at state schools. It was an analogy which I thought seemed pretty clear.

I realise that there are better and worse state schools (I dated a girl from a state school for 16 months). The point is (whether or not you like to admit it) that at state schools there is less money for facilities and teachers would rather teach more motivated students.

Adam
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Suzy_vet
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#63
Report 16 years ago
#63
(Original post by Tnacilppa)
I think you got the wrong end of the stick on the whole drug thing. I wasn't suggesting that there are drug problems at state schools. It was an analogy which I thought seemed pretty clear.

I realise that there are better and worse state schools (I dated a girl from a state school for 16 months). The point is (whether or not you like to admit it) that at state schools there is less money for facilities and teachers would rather teach more motivated students.

Adam
Im sure a lot of teachers would rather teach motivated students, but its not always much of a challenge is it. What makes the job worth while is helping students who may be poor academiclly, or not very good at concentrating, and actually seeing a change in people who wouldnt have been expected to improve. We are lucky at school in that we have some really motivated teachers who studied at oxford cauue we are near oxford. They take pleasure in teaching all types of students like the ones you get at comps. It obvious states dont have as good facilities or money. Money and facilities doesnt mean the route to success alll the time you know, as much as you might think.

2 of my maths teachers, my chem teacher and my old history teacher went to oxford, and as far as i can tell they dont want to teach at private school cause they are more interested in making a difference than prestige, which, after all, is what private schools have always been about.
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Jamie
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#64
Report 16 years ago
#64
(Original post by fishpaste)
Teachers will still find themselves back in the state sector. A good, motivated teacher can do wonders for young people.

Alternatively, the government could just set a cap of 0 fees on these schools, and provide them with the same funding that a state school receives now.
The motivation for teachers in public schools is the increased level of behaviour, and higher salaries. Why the hell would they want to work in state schools?
J
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Suzy_vet
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#65
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#65
Maybe, i guess. depends on your aims!
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fishpaste
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#66
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#66
(Original post by foolfarian)
The motivation for teachers in public schools is the increased level of behaviour, and higher salaries. Why the hell would they want to work in state schools?
J
Because they'd have no choice.
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eskimo
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#67
Report 15 years ago
#67
You are mistaken if you believe that state schools could compete with the resources that private schools can offer. This is due to a number of factors. Firstly the average budgets of private schools is astronomical compared to state schools, if taxes were increased to provide all state schools with a similar budget the increase would be vast and unacceptable. The discrepincy in budgets could not be resolved by a simply increasing taxes by 5% in the top bracket. As sadly, you undersetimate the budget differences between state and private schools.
Secondly certain educational resources are of limited supply. For example good/excellent teachers are not unlimited. As such schools which can offer the largest wage (private schools) will receive the best teachers. How can state schools compete? One particular public school in the north of England has grounds spanning 1200 acres for 390 pupils. It is impossible to offer the same resources for all of England's children.
There are plenty of more factors; peer group effects, background conditions at home, private tutors, etc but the case has been made clear state schools cannot compete with private. There might be the odd exception but overall the hurdle is insurmountable.
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PhilB
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#68
Report 15 years ago
#68
Bear in mind, as several people have noted before, mertiocracy as supported by Tony Blair, was an idea first touted in a satirical 50s comedy. It also has the effect of suggesting that the poor/ "lower classes" are where they are because of their own inate stupidity and not because of some accident of birth.
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happysunshine
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#69
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#69
(Original post by PhilB)
Bear in mind, as several people have noted before, mertiocracy as supported by Tony Blair, was an idea first touted in a satirical 50s comedy. It also has the effect of suggesting that the poor/ "lower classes" are where they are because of their own inate stupidity and not because of some accident of birth.
Well I'd agree with that, maybe not so much twenty years ago but today we can all be who ever we want to be.
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Joey_Johns
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#70
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#70
(Original post by happysunshine)
Well I'd agree with that, maybe not so much twenty years ago but today we can all be who ever we want to be.
Thats sooo untrue. I've always wanted to be a cat. Laze about all day by a roaring fire, then take a stroll outside to terrorise the neighbours cat
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happysunshine
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
Thats sooo untrue. I've always wanted to be a cat. Laze about all day by a roaring fire, then take a stroll outside to terrorise the neighbours cat
LOL

I'd like to be a cat too, they have it sooo easy and they have like twenty different homes!

But seriously I don't think people on here can accept that some people don't want to be successful and they think it's our fault and we should change that they don't think ambitious enough.
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ABCD
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#72
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#72
(Original post by leda swanson)
i've just been reading a somewhat argumentative thread about discrimination against state educated students by those who have enjoyed the massive good fortune of an independent education. or, woe betide, vice versa.

which made me think, what do you think, why don't we outlaw and ABOLISH PRIVATE SCHOOLS once and for all? make everyone attend a bog-standard blair-funded comp? this being the only honest route to meritocracy- right?

uk learning should be a right, not a privilege. nobody should be more equal than anybody else.

lol this is stupid if you pay more you SHOULD be allowed to get a higher quality product!
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Joey_Johns
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#73
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#73
(Original post by happysunshine)
LOL

I'd like to be a cat too, they have it sooo easy and they have like twenty different homes!

But seriously I don't think people on here can accept that some people don't want to be successful and they think it's our fault and we should change that they don't think ambitious enough.
Agreed. People are just generally lazy in such cases. I find it rather funny when these types of people win the lottery. I watched a tv program once and it showed what they spend their money on, it was hysterical. They try to become part of the 'upper class' by going to country clubs etc and take up golf, its just so funny to watch them because they are so out of place. Installing a pub inside their house was proably the best one and buying really flashy cars, when in most cases real rich people just have cars which blend in so to speak.
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Ben.S.
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#74
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#74
(Original post by ABCD)
lol this is stupid if you pay more you SHOULD be allowed to get a higher quality product!
The validity of that statement when applied to education is questionable. Certainly, I agree with those principles when buying a watch or whatever - but I do not think that a direct translation is a good idea. Does the fact that rich people buy a expensive cars adversely affect the quality of a cheaper car, for example? Education is more complicated than that.

Ben
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happysunshine
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#75
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#75
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
Agreed. People are just generally lazy in such cases. I find it rather funny when these types of people win the lottery. I watched a tv program once and it showed what they spend their money on, it was hysterical. They try to become part of the 'upper class' by going to country clubs etc and take up golf, its just so funny to watch them because they are so out of place. Installing a pub inside their house was proably the best one and buying really flashy cars, when in most cases real rich people just have cars which blend in so to speak.
I've seen what they spend their money on! I know what you mean they think buying quad bikes and other useless stuff makes them have the same life style that the hard working, rich business man has.

Have you seen Michael Carroll from Norfolk?
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TheWolf
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Ben.S.)
The validity of that statement when applied to education is questionable. Certainly, I agree with those principles when buying a watch or whatever - but I do not think that a direct translation is a good idea. Does the fact that rich people buy a expensive cars adversely affect the quality of a cheaper car, for example? Education is more complicated than that.

Ben

rich people going to Public School does not adversely affect the quality of state schools? But wouldnt you say that a Rolls Royce is better than a Ford Fiesta?
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Ben.S.
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#77
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#77
(Original post by TheWolf)
rich people going to Public School does not adverselt affect the quality of state schools? But wouldnt you say that a Rolls Royce is better than a Ford Fiesta?
What? I wasn't replying to you! Where do the best teachers go...

Ben
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Joey_Johns
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#78
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#78
(Original post by happysunshine)
I've seen what they spend their money on! I know what you mean they think buying quad bikes and other useless stuff makes them have the same life style that the hard working, rich business man has.

Have you seen Michael Carroll from Norfolk?
No, it was a family from near me in Lancashire. Absolute joke. They had a stuffed tiger in their living room next to their pink leather sofa, bleuuugh!!!

That was a good one two on young posh and loaded when the asiin guy, bought all the shooting gear and got himself a 'title' of Lord. He grew up on a normal housing estate lol.
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Joey_Johns
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Ben.S.)
What? I wasn't replying to you! Where do the best teachers go...

Ben
Often to areas where their husbands work. A teacher is 'footloose' so to speak, weather there are good school in that area private or state doesnt matter in most cases.
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happysunshine
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#80
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#80
(Original post by TheWolf)
rich people going to Public School does not adversely affect the quality of state schools?
Well we save more money. It could be argued that the parents who can afford private education for their children are the greedy ones because they take places of grammar schools/good comprehensives which could go to needy children.
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