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Ireland. british or irish? watch

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    so my ex boyfriend was from the north of ireland..and viewed himself as irish (he catholic) and he tried to explain the division between protestants (british) and catholic (irish) in northern ireland.and it seemed all a bit confusing. why does it really matter what religion you are?...noone cares anywhere else...and since geographically people who are from ireland live on irish land (especially since its an island aswell)..shouldnt they then be seen as irish?....also whenever i speak about norther ireland..my ex used to flinch..cos he'd ask me 'whats the difference between being northern irish and irish? we're all irish.' so i always refer to people from northern ireland..as irish people who live in the north. just cos i dont wanna create conflict with anyone who feels strongly about the subject.

    views?
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    Generally catholic northern Ireland is anti uk, republican. Prods are pro uk royalists. This they each attempt to associate more with the nation they believe they should be a part of. Of course there are always exceptions.

    Is it the island of Ireland or the republic that's makes you Irish. Scottish, welsh and English are British, but each draw their distinctions.
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    With NI, you can be British and Irish, one or the other, both equally, two thirds one and a third the other, whatever. I fully agree with this.

    It's an issue that I'd leave to the people of NI but as a long-term goal I'd like to see NI and Éire unify.
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    I'm from the Republic but I have no strong wish for unification. Equally I'm not against it either. I'd leave it to the people of NI - whatever works for them and whatever is the most peaceful arrangement.
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    Being from the Republic, I see people from NI can decide what they want. It's technically part of the UK, so if they want to associate themselves with British then by all means, whatever keeps them happy. As for myself, Irish and proud.
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    It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So those from ROI are their own country, whilst those in the north are part of the UK.
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    Ireland is Irish. It's in the name.
    Northern Ireland is British, being part of the UK and all.
    Simples.
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    Do never call an Irish British. I did this only once because I had the idea of the UK. Fatal mistake. But he was from Dublin. So I was just stupid because he really is Irish. Same happened to a Scottish prof. She gets mad caling her British. She told me she is not because they have their own history and are proud of it. Nationalities are kind of risky to talk about.

    but the Irish were treated badly by the English during history. Cromwell for example slaughtered 10 percent of Irish Catholics, Ulster Plantation, Potatoe famine and refusing support etc. Thatßs what made the Irish anti-British. There are a lot of folk songs about that.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Ireland is Irish. It's in the name.
    Northern Ireland is British, being part of the UK and all.
    Simples.
    If only it were that simple...
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    from republic always say im irish
    nobody believes me since i have no accent
    shame, works wonders in clubs
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    (Original post by Aodhán)
    If only it were that simple...
    Ok, how about the UN Charter? It underlines the fundermental right to self determination. A plurality of Northern Irish wish to remain part of the UK. Thus it is by international law part of the UK.
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    Britain is the chunk of land containing england, wales and scotland. ireland is a different chunk of land.
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    Well, Northern Ireland is part of Britain.

    I'd like to make a distinction between civic and cultural identities. In civic terms, people from Northern Ireland are unequivocally British. I would hope that, even amongst those who seek constitutional change and for a united Irish republic, they could be able to respect the institutions of our country and work within them.

    Culturally, I am comfortable with people having various identities, overlapping, mixed - whatever. If you want to consider yourself culturally Irish, fine; British and Irish, fine; Northern Irish, fine; just British, again fine. It's a rather arbitrary thing, largely based on upbringing and identity is a complex thing.


    (Original post by Retrodiction)
    Britain is the chunk of land containing england, wales and scotland. ireland is a different chunk of land.
    That is incorrect. Great Britain refers specifically to either the island, or - politically - the combination of England, Wales and Scotland (ie, including the hundreds of islands which lie off GB). Britain, on the other hand, refers primarily to the United Kingdom as a whole these days.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Ok, how about the UN Charter? It underlines the fundermental right to self determination. A plurality of Northern Irish wish to remain part of the UK. Thus it is by international law part of the UK.
    The right of self-determination in international law does not give some right to secession from established states. It is about involving all people within the workings of the state. Whilst it may be politically clever to change Northern Ireland's constitutional make-up should the majority of people there desire it, there is no obligation in international law - or even British law - to do so.
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    Feck people, they can say for themselves, what about Rockall?
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    Honestly, if I were you, I'd go with whatever the Northern Irish person you're talking to at the time calls themselves. Thus, if your boy calls himself Irish, he's Irish, but if you met another who called himself British, you should call him British. Never assume one or the other until they've told you personally, otherwise you could inadvertently offend someone.

    I get quite annoyed when I'm called British, personally, though I technically am.


    (Original post by L i b)
    The right of self-determination in international law does not give some right to secession from established states. It is about involving all people within the workings of the state. Whilst it may be politically clever to change Northern Ireland's constitutional make-up should the majority of people there desire it, there is no obligation in international law - or even British law - to do so.
    There is obligation under The Good Friday Agreement and you know it, Lib.
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    I don't identify with being British as a Welsh person, and I tend to think of other people from the UK as being from their respective countries rather than British. I feel that Northern Ireland is more of a "political entity" rather than an actual nation, I see the people as just being Irish. Tell that to a unionist though and you'll get a black eye...
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    (Original post by Curzon)
    I don't identify with being British as a Welsh person, and I tend to think of other people from the UK as being from their respective countries rather than British. I feel that Northern Ireland is more of a "political entity" rather than an actual nation, I see the people as just being Irish. Tell that to a unionist though and you'll get a black eye...
    Ali G did alright!

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    (Original post by Hylean)
    There is obligation under The Good Friday Agreement and you know it, Lib.
    The GFA isn't a legally binding document. Whilst I agree it is a good political agreement to advance the peace process, it is just a political commitment. Should, for example, the Agreement break down somehow, I'd expect it would be totally rescinded by the Government. Plenty of such Agreements have been overwritten or totally forgotten in the course of the Northern Irish peace process.

    I hope it survives, but some of its toughest times still lie ahead. Imagine, for example, what would happen to the devolved institutions if Sinn Fein were to become the largest party in the Assembly. An Irish Republican First Minister, particularly one who was once an active member of the IRA, would - I suspect - not be tolerated by many Unionists.



    (Original post by Cynthi007)
    Do never call an Irish British. I did this only once because I had the idea of the UK. Fatal mistake. But he was from Dublin. So I was just stupid because he really is Irish. Same happened to a Scottish prof. She gets mad caling her British. She told me she is not because they have their own history and are proud of it. Nationalities are kind of risky to talk about.
    Well, I'd am Scottish, but I'd be irritated if you suggested my nationality was anything other than British.

    Some Irish people - very few in the Republic of Ireland these days - may consider themselves culturally British too. As you say, it's a complex thing.

    but the Irish were treated badly by the English during history. Cromwell for example slaughtered 10 percent of Irish Catholics, Ulster Plantation, Potatoe famine and refusing support etc. Thatßs what made the Irish anti-British. There are a lot of folk songs about that.
    Cromwell was a ******* and is recognised as a traitor - indeed, the worst traitor in our history - in Britain. As for the Irish Famine, the Irish nationalist suggestion that the response to it was any sort of plot against the Irish people simply doesn't stand up to historical analysis. Firstly, the British government was unaware of the extent of the Famine until too late; secondly, they adhered to a laissez-faire economic belief that state interference in issues like this would do more harm than good in the long run.

    Yes, the government did some unpleasant things to the common people in Ireland. They did that in England too - note events like the Peterloo Massacre. In fact, all governments do that to some extent. Nationalists typically hold governments they don't like to an unrealistic double-standard.
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    If you're from NI, you can see yourself as British, Irish, or Northern Irish. It's all a bit complicated as your nationality ties in a lot with family background, politics and religion.
 
 
 
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