Should Canabis be legalised??? Watch

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Ryoku
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Speciez99)
they didnt have clinical medicine then so they had no idea what it was doing to their body and we still dont really know now. we are living in a different culture with different lifestyles so for all we know it could be causing brain damage. frankly if a car was advertised as probably safe to drive and the brakes will probably work then i wouldnt want to use it.
That's the point though, nothing is perfectly safe, it's up to use to decide what is an acceptable risk, and live our lives based on our own desicions, not on some jackasses in some little ofice somewhere
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material breach
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#82
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(Original post by Ryoku)
That's the point though, nothing is perfectly safe, it's up to use to decide what is an acceptable risk, and live our lives based on our own desicions, not on some jackasses in some little ofice somewhere
erm so why isnt eating mercury legal? because some people in society arent intelligent/mature enough to make those sorts of decisions and that includes the average canabis user who i guess is about 17 and might not realise the implications of brain damage thus they need to be protected from them. under your arguement there shouldnt be speed limits cos people should be able to decide how fast is safe.

you seem to ignore the first 2 points i made about the fact its not as simple as the effects
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riffraff
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#83
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(Original post by Speciez99)
erm so why isnt eating mercury legal? because some people in society arent intelligent/mature enough to make those sorts of decisions and that includes the average canabis user who i guess is about 17 and might not realise the implications of brain damage thus they need to be protected from them. under your arguement there shouldnt be speed limits cos people should be able to decide how fast is safe.

you seem to ignore the first 2 points i made about the fact its not as simple as the effects
the point about speed limits is to protect other people, like the drinking and driving ban. a similar thing could be put in place for cannabis, as well as an age limit
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material breach
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#84
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(Original post by riffraff)
the point about speed limits is to protect other people, like the drinking and driving ban. a similar thing could be put in place for cannabis, as well as an age limit
did you think about this? if you are admitting that there should be age limits you are admitting there is a danger and thus it shouldnt be legal. what u are saying is that its ok as long as the person knows they are getting brain damaged
erm think of the cost to the NHS why would we look after stupid stoners as a nation?
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riffraff
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Speciez99)
did you think about this? if you are admitting that there should be age limits you are admitting there is a danger and thus it shouldnt be legal. what u are saying is that its ok as long as the person knows they are getting brain damaged
erm think of the cost to the NHS why would we look after stupid stoners as a nation?
why should we look after the stupid drunks of the nation? or those who get lung cancer of heart disease from smoking?

yes, I think there is a danger, as with alchohol and tobacco, but I think that for people who are old enough and responsible enough to use it sensibly, cannabis shoul be legalised. and yes, cannabis is healthier than tobacco or alchohol, it can be eaten or vaporised, thus not destroying your lungs, and it also doesn't screw up your liver or pickle your brain.
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wayland
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#86
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#86
Yes, it should be legalised.

ALL drugs should be legalised.

There is no point in throwing people in jail for victimless crimes. Just because some people cannot take responsibility for thier own drug habits, it doesn't mean that ALL drug users should be punished.
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Jonatan
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#87
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#87
(Original post by Ryoku)
That's the point though, nothing is perfectly safe, it's up to use to decide what is an acceptable risk, and live our lives based on our own desicions, not on some jackasses in some little ofice somewhere
Do you think cocaine should be legalised ?
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Jonatan
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#88
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(Original post by riffraff)
why should we look after the stupid drunks of the nation? or those who get lung cancer of heart disease from smoking?

yes, I think there is a danger, as with alchohol and tobacco, but I think that for people who are old enough and responsible enough to use it sensibly, cannabis shoul be legalised. and yes, cannabis is healthier than tobacco or alchohol, it can be eaten or vaporised, thus not destroying your lungs, and it also doesn't screw up your liver or pickle your brain.
Had smoking been invented today it would sure be illegal. Governments around the world are currently trying to prevent abuse of tobacco. Problem is it cannot be done over night, therefore most governments gradually impose stricter rules to where cigarettes can be sold and consumed, and the circumstances around it. Also, you mentioning this brings in an interesting question. If smoking is bad for you, does that mean you should legalise something else which is also bad for you? Following this argument you could just as well go saying that because cars pollute the environment there is no reason why I am not allowed to pour mercuary down the toilet. Your comparision between canabis and cigareetes is more of a reason to illegalise nicotin than it is to legalise cannabis. When it comes to alcohol, it will simply be impossible to prohibit it in any near future, but that doesnt mean we should unleash all other soft drugs on the market. Alcohol is harmful, yes. But this is not a reason to legalise cannabis.
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Jonatan
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#89
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(Original post by riffraff)
and it also doesn't screw up your liver or pickle your brain.
Of course, we here ignore the fact that cannabis is known to trigger several mental diseases, disturbing the hormon cycle of wommen, and that it impairs your reflexes and motorical skills for days. Furthermore, you assume cannabis to be harmless because we do not directly see the consequences of it. Remember, 50 years ago many people claimed that it was nonsense that smoking caused cancer. Alos, there are strong indications that cannabis does cause harmfull effects. At the very best you can claim that research results are inconclusive.
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Jonatan
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#90
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(Original post by wayland)
Yes, it should be legalised.

ALL drugs should be legalised.

There is no point in throwing people in jail for victimless crimes. Just because some people cannot take responsibility for thier own drug habits, it doesn't mean that ALL drug users should be punished.
You are aware of course that a few doses of cocaine can get you addicted for life, and that it will break down you mentally until you become a burden to the hospitals and taxpayers. Your opinion can seem very tolerant and liberal, but it will cause major problems in society no daubt about it.
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riffraff
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#91
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everything is harmful if taken in excess- it is a matter of degree. just as the occasional cigarette will not give you lung cancer, so the occasional hash cookie is not going to give you mental disorders.

yes, cannabis can be harmful, but illegalising cannabis does not prevent consumption. A parallel can be seen in the American Prohibition, and the damage the law brought to society. Legalisation of Cannabis would not make it so that it was available at every corner shop, but would ensure that there could be quality controls etc. set to protect the consumers. It would put criminals out of business, because who would want to buy weed that could be cut with other drugs or in some other way contaminated when they could have higher quality weed for the same price?
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Ryoku
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#92
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(Original post by Speciez99)
did you think about this? if you are admitting that there should be age limits you are admitting there is a danger and thus it shouldnt be legal. what u are saying is that its ok as long as the person knows they are getting brain damaged
erm think of the cost to the NHS why would we look after stupid stoners as a nation?
erm, actually, by your reasoning no one should drive, smoke, drink, operate heavy machenary ect cause all these have age limits, so there must be a danger involved. The idea behind the age limit is that at that point onwards there is an acceptable risk, you are physically/mentally developed enough to do the whatever! There are risks involved in crossing the street, walking out your front door, breathing, but at a certain point in your development as a person, the risk is substaintially less, and so the law permits you to carry out that task. Canabis at the moment is used by whoever can get it, if the government controlles it and lays down safety regulations, the risk is reduced dramatically, as it is no longer cut with dangerouse stuff, and an age limit can be added, so that people at a greater risk of the harm effects do not get their hands on it.
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pandora
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#93
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http://www.newscientist.com/hottopic...ana/memory.jsp

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopic.../waronweed.jsp

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopic...ana/hooked.jsp

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopic...ana/addict.jsp

Brain damage? Um, no. Not IMO. Catalyze some mental illnesses in already predisposition patients? Yes.

You must read the whole of the VERY WELL BALANCED articles, or I will kill you. :cool: Honestly, they are balanced, even from a slightly prohibitionist organization, but still present both sides decentely well.

I am completely for the legalization in the US. It will never happen though.
I am also for making it available only for a certain age and above (but since most users are underage, that is kinda silly on second thought)... punishing someone underage who can't drive for doing something that won't make them fall over drunk or do things they regret is silly.
Tax it. Ticket it. Fine. Just stop filling up jails with pot smokers.
:rolleyes:
Most users here in the US are social smokers or weekend smokers (like drinking). As with any drug, there are those that abuse and overuse it to some obvious effects... but is that due to the person using it or to the drug? I think that question should be posed to an extent for every "drug" and even weighted more heavily due to the lack of full blown physical addiction with marijuana. It doesn't even have the psychological addition potential as other street drugs.
I am sick and tired of paternalistic government.
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Muse
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#94
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#94
(Original post by riffraff)
everything is harmful if taken in excess- it is a matter of degree. just as the occasional cigarette will not give you lung cancer, so the occasional hash cookie is not going to give you mental disorders.

yes, cannabis can be harmful, but illegalising cannabis does not prevent consumption. A parallel can be seen in the American Prohibition, and the damage the law brought to society. Legalisation of Cannabis would not make it so that it was available at every corner shop, but would ensure that there could be quality controls etc. set to protect the consumers. It would put criminals out of business, because who would want to buy weed that could be cut with other drugs or in some other way contaminated when they could have higher quality weed for the same price?
If you smoke cannabis in the same frequency as cigarettes, it would soon wreck your lungs because of the higher tar content. Cannabis already has links between consumption and onset of schizophrenia and has a higher deterioration rate via passive smoking.
Interestingly, Amsterdam 'cannabis cafes' don't go down to well with the general public and are not seen too favourably in their society's eyes. It would not put criminals out of business as they would just find something else to sell which is probably going to be even more harmful, and people who smoke cannabis just to appear cool as it's illegal would arguably seek other drugs to 'improve their image'. I think the day that cannabis is decriminalised will be a sad day for society.
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material breach
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#95
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(Original post by Ryoku)
erm, actually, by your reasoning no one should drive, smoke, drink, operate heavy machenary ect cause all these have age limits, so there must be a danger involved. The idea behind the age limit is that at that point onwards there is an acceptable risk, you are physically/mentally developed enough to do the whatever! There are risks involved in crossing the street, walking out your front door, breathing, but at a certain point in your development as a person, the risk is substaintially less, and so the law permits you to carry out that task. Canabis at the moment is used by whoever can get it, if the government controlles it and lays down safety regulations, the risk is reduced dramatically, as it is no longer cut with dangerouse stuff, and an age limit can be added, so that people at a greater risk of the harm effects do not get their hands on it.
if the laws arent being obeyed now, are they gonna be in the future? not likely.

on your everything has danger point: agreed everthing has danger, however they all have useful benifits to society ie earn money to buy food, get some where and its therefore necessary that we take these risks in your lives. its not necessary to risk disease to achieve a short term high based on chemical, which is why playing russian roulette for kicks is illegal
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starry
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#96
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pandora
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#97
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(Original post by timeofyourlife)
If you smoke cannabis in the same frequency as cigarettes, it would soon wreck your lungs because of the higher tar content. Cannabis already has links between consumption and onset of schizophrenia and has a higher deterioration rate via passive smoking.
Interestingly, Amsterdam 'cannabis cafes' don't go down to well with the general public and are not seen too favourably in their society's eyes. It would not put criminals out of business as they would just find something else to sell which is probably going to be even more harmful, and people who smoke cannabis just to appear cool as it's illegal would arguably seek other drugs to 'improve their image'. I think the day that cannabis is decriminalised will be a sad day for society.
Oh, so sad that people will be able to relax without getting sh!tfaced drunk... why else do you think it would be sad? Of course chronic smoking can cause cancer.... but a lot of people smoke from water bongs, which decreases that risk, and vaporizors, which eliminates that risk nearly entirely... not to mention the vast majority of marijuana smokers are not habitual, and do not smoke for decades on end like nicotine.

and what is this "seek other drugs" to improve their image thing? Do you mean they will go find something legal to get a similar high?
I do not know of any rx drugs that will give a similar high as weed. There's Marinol, and drug seekers won't get an MD to prescribe that one unless they have cancer, and there are others in Europe based on THC, and I am sure the regulations are as tight there. *Most* marijuana smokers do it for fun and relaxation, if it were suddenly made illegal in Amsterdam, while I don't know any smokers from there, I don't think they would go to other drugs. They would just risk being criminals.

What's the difference between a high driver and a drunk driver?
The drunk driver runs the red light. The high driver waits for the stopsign to turn green.
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pandora
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#98
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Oops... I better ask if any of you are for the legalization (complete, not just decriminalization) of marijuana for medical use, with the same controls on it that similar drugs have.
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Muse
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(Original post by pandora)
Oh, so sad that people will be able to relax without getting sh!tfaced drunk... why else do you think it would be sad? Of course chronic smoking can cause cancer.... but a lot of people smoke from water bongs, which decreases that risk, and vaporizors, which eliminates that risk nearly entirely... not to mention the vast majority of marijuana smokers are not habitual, and do not smoke for decades on end like nicotine.
I can't say I know of many people that smoke cannabis from water bongs, the most popular choice is rolled in with other tobacco. The vast majority of cannabis smokers, granted, are not habitual but when you smoke a joint it has the same effect on your body systems as 10+ cigarettes which is certainly not good for you in one go.

(Original post by pandora)
and what is this "seek other drugs" to improve their image thing? Do you mean they will go find something legal to get a similar high?
No, I mean a lot of people smoke it because it is illegal and it improves their supposed image. A lot of people in my sixth form who smoked it didn't even like the stuff, but enjoyed their 'bad' image. If it was legalised, this 'bad' image would disappear and it could encourage them to move onto harder drugs

(Original post by pandora)
if it were suddenly made illegal in Amsterdam, while I don't know any smokers from there, I don't think they would go to other drugs. They would just risk being criminals.
Yes, I'm not disputing that.

(Original post by pandora)
What's the difference between a high driver and a drunk driver?
The drunk driver runs the red light. The high driver waits for the stopsign to turn green.
That's before the stoner mows over a kid crossing the road

(Original post by pandora)
Oops... I better ask if any of you are for the legalization (complete, not just decriminalization) of marijuana for medical use, with the same controls on it that similar drugs have.
Decriminalisation is the same as legalisation. I think you're talking about reclassification which cannabis has been to class-C. I don't have anything against it being prescribed by a doctor in pill-form.
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pandora
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#100
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(Original post by timeofyourlife)
I can't say I know of many people that smoke cannabis from water bongs, the most popular choice is rolled in with other tobacco. The vast majority of cannabis smokers, granted, are not habitual but when you smoke a joint it has the same effect on your body systems as 10+ cigarettes which is certainly not good for you in one go.



No, I mean a lot of people smoke it because it is illegal and it improves their supposed image. A lot of people in my sixth form who smoked it didn't even like the stuff, but enjoyed their 'bad' image. If it was legalised, this 'bad' image would disappear and it could encourage them to move onto harder drugs



Yes, I'm not disputing that.



That's before the stoner mows over a kid crossing the road



Decriminalisation is the same as legalisation. I think you're talking about reclassification which cannabis has been to class-C. I don't have anything against it being prescribed by a doctor in pill-form.
Let me clarify. I am from the US. Most smoke from water bongs if they aren't from the ghetto smoking every single day.

"Decriminalization", here and in Canada, means you can still get ticketed and fined by a cop for getting caught smoking it or having a certain amount. They still jail dealers. Legalization is free from any legal repercussions except those that may deal with underage smoking or similar regulations that govern alcohol use.

In the US, Marinol (capsule form pure synthesized THC) is a schedule III (with hydrocodone/Vicodin/some diet drugs and amphetamines). Used to be a schedule II, which is on the same level as cocaine and morphine. Marijuana leaves are schedule I, illegal in all forms. Which schedule would you prefer the leaves to be in? There is a large movement to legalize medicinial use of marijuana leaves because the pill form is available (but rarely prescribed).


:cool: I don't know about you, but 10 cigarettes would make me pass out and shake like a leaf for hours (possibly kill me... one cigarette contains enough nicotine to kill you if you smoke the entire thing and absorb all the nicotine). Nicotine is much more potent than THC. One bowl or joint of marijuana makes me no more than relaxed and creative, and I still have rather good control of motor skills of coordination. My reaction time may be slower (not perceptible to me, unlike smoking nicotine when I drive... where I can feel my muscles relax and it feels dangerous) when I drive, but it certainly makes me more cautious. The most dangerous sensation I have felt while driving is that I didn't feel I was going in the right direction, but that I knew exactly where to go by remembering landmarks. Let me add that the effects depend on the plant... some strains are more effective at others at certain effects. I am not one of thoes people that feels they have lost control of their mind or body when "high."

Does that help you understand my comments better?
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