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Rank on graduation?
Bit of an odd one but here goes.
If I pass out of IOT having done a degree do I pass out as flying officer or pilot officer? Also whats the time scale for direct entry with a degree for Flt Lt??
GCMK1
If I pass out of IOT having done a degree do I pass out as flying officer or pilot officer? Also whats the time scale for direct entry with a degree for Flt Lt??
GCMK1
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This should answer your first question:
this should answer your second:
For the first part, I'll assume now that IOT is longer, you'll be listed as a Flying Officer on Graduation. Anyone know if this assumption is correct?
Wzz
It's a complicated thing, made worse by the fact that graduates are commissioned from day one. As they have to serve six months as a Plt Off, it means they're paid as one through IOT. IOT being about 5 months and 26 days long, they're all listed as Plt Offs on graduation, but will all be wearing Fg Off rank on their uniforms; as they're due to be promoted in 3-6 days time or something...!
The genuine Fg Offs on graduation are either ex-rankers, or graduates who have been recoursed and therefore spent more than 6 months at Cranwell. Alternatively, they could be old University Cadets; they were promoted from their university rank of A/Plt Off to Plt Off on the 15th of July on the year they graduated university, regardless of the time they were due to start IOT. Therefore, even if they got onto the earliest August IOT, they'd become Fg Offs about a month before graduating.
I know one guy who, through injury, wound up waiting nearly a year to start IOT, and as he had a Masters degree, started IOT under Fg Off pay and graduated as a Flt Lt. He was very glad he'd had a cadetship, I'm sure.
The genuine Fg Offs on graduation are either ex-rankers, or graduates who have been recoursed and therefore spent more than 6 months at Cranwell. Alternatively, they could be old University Cadets; they were promoted from their university rank of A/Plt Off to Plt Off on the 15th of July on the year they graduated university, regardless of the time they were due to start IOT. Therefore, even if they got onto the earliest August IOT, they'd become Fg Offs about a month before graduating.
I know one guy who, through injury, wound up waiting nearly a year to start IOT, and as he had a Masters degree, started IOT under Fg Off pay and graduated as a Flt Lt. He was very glad he'd had a cadetship, I'm sure.
this should answer your second:
Wzz
you'll be paid £21 301pa on entry. Your degree entitles you to be paid as a Plt Off. On the old IOT certainly, you'd have stayed on this for 6 months, then moved to £25 605pa as a Fg Off. You'd spend 30 months as a Fg Off before being promoted to Flt Lt on £32 810pa.
For the first part, I'll assume now that IOT is longer, you'll be listed as a Flying Officer on Graduation. Anyone know if this assumption is correct?
Nope, no idea. Ask again in 9 months! Wouldn't surprise me if you found yourself earning Fg Off pay after 6 months of the 9 month course. It also wouldn't surprise me if they rejigged it to make you serve 9 months as a Plt Off, with the course being 8 months and 27 days or the suchlike.
I suspect the former.
I suspect the former.
When I was at Benson the other day I spoke to a Fg Off who gave us the following gen
As a graduate you get Fg Officer 3 days after completing IOT(under the old IOT), you then have to wait 4 years for you Flt Lt, compared to 6 years for non graduates.
As a graduate you get Fg Officer 3 days after completing IOT(under the old IOT), you then have to wait 4 years for you Flt Lt, compared to 6 years for non graduates.
Got IOT joining instructions today - included in a booklet entitled " Commissions as Aircrew Officers in the RAF" was the following:
Grad Entry (4 yr): Enters at Plt Off serves for months (IOT) then promoted to Fg Off with 2 1/2 yrs seniority and serves for 1 yr before promotion to Flt Lt. So Flt Lt 1 1/2 yrs after finishing IOT.
Grad Entry (3 yr): Identical but serves 2 1/2 yrs as Fg Off.
Non- Grad: Finishes IOT, commissioned as APO (1 yr) then Plt Off (1 yr) then Fg Off (3 1/2 yrs) then Flt Lt. So 5 1/2 yrs to Flt Lt.
So how long does it take a non-grad ground branch person to get Flt Lt ?
Grad Entry (4 yr): Enters at Plt Off serves for months (IOT) then promoted to Fg Off with 2 1/2 yrs seniority and serves for 1 yr before promotion to Flt Lt. So Flt Lt 1 1/2 yrs after finishing IOT.
Grad Entry (3 yr): Identical but serves 2 1/2 yrs as Fg Off.
Non- Grad: Finishes IOT, commissioned as APO (1 yr) then Plt Off (1 yr) then Fg Off (3 1/2 yrs) then Flt Lt. So 5 1/2 yrs to Flt Lt.
So how long does it take a non-grad ground branch person to get Flt Lt ?
In addition to the above...
If from the ranks... regardless of grad/non-grad:
Officer Cadet for IOT, promoted to Fg Off on same day as graduation, then 2 years to Flt Lt with seniority of 50% of time served.
This was passed onto me by a nice lady at Innsworth last week and applies to IOT 1 onwards.
If from the ranks... regardless of grad/non-grad:
Officer Cadet for IOT, promoted to Fg Off on same day as graduation, then 2 years to Flt Lt with seniority of 50% of time served.
This was passed onto me by a nice lady at Innsworth last week and applies to IOT 1 onwards.
GritChimpMk1
As a graduate you get Fg Officer 3 days after completing IOT(under the old IOT), you then have to wait 4 years for you Flt Lt, compared to 6 years for non graduates.
His gen sucks I'm afraid. It's as has been mentioned in the post below yours.
--------------
Raptor
Grad Entry (4 yr): Enters at Plt Off serves for months (IOT) then promoted to Fg Off with 2 1/2 yrs seniority and serves for 1 yr before promotion to Flt Lt. So Flt Lt 1 1/2 yrs after finishing IOT.
Worth mentioning that a 4 year degree from a Scottish university doesn't count as a "four year degree" in RAF parlance. It means a MEng or something like that, not a 4 year Scottish B.Sc or the suchlike. They changed this in 2000 or so.
Raptor
Grad Entry (3 yr): Identical but serves 2 1/2 yrs as Fg Off.
Non- Grad: Finishes IOT, commissioned as APO (1 yr) then Plt Off (1 yr) then Fg Off (3 1/2 yrs) then Flt Lt. So 5 1/2 yrs to Flt Lt.
Non- Grad: Finishes IOT, commissioned as APO (1 yr) then Plt Off (1 yr) then Fg Off (3 1/2 yrs) then Flt Lt. So 5 1/2 yrs to Flt Lt.
These are the same for blunties and aircrew; the difference being that an aircrew A/Plt Off gets paid slightly more after 6 months than his blunty mate, if I remember right.
The system was designed so that you could get three mates to Flt Lt on the same day. One mate started a 4 year uni course on the same day that another started a 3 year course and the third mate started IOT.
REME-Bod
In addition to the above...
If from the ranks... regardless of grad/non-grad:
Officer Cadet for IOT, promoted to Fg Off on same day as graduation, then 2 years to Flt Lt with seniority of 50% of time served.
This was passed onto me by a nice lady at Innsworth last week and applies to IOT 1 onwards.
If from the ranks... regardless of grad/non-grad:
Officer Cadet for IOT, promoted to Fg Off on same day as graduation, then 2 years to Flt Lt with seniority of 50% of time served.
This was passed onto me by a nice lady at Innsworth last week and applies to IOT 1 onwards.
When you say from the ranks, does that mean from any rank? Is it the same for say an ex-SAC graduating as a ex-FS graduating?
M!ke
When you say from the ranks, does that mean from any rank? Is it the same for say an ex-SAC graduating as a ex-FS graduating?
Yes, that's the impression I got during my chat. The only difference would be the seniority, ie 50% of time served within the ranks.
How this actually affects your career path I'm not too sure because I fail to see how a Flt Lt 2 years after graduation with 8 years seniority compares to that of someone with say 2 years seniority. After all, they'll most probably be on the same pay scale, have the same commission date etc. If anything, the Ex FS may have to mark time for a while if he does go to a higher pay increment.
I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference to your career path. A colleague of mine was commissioned from the ranks to become a pilot, so I'll ask him for some exact figures if anyone'd be interested.
I believe your seniority is counted from enlistment; so presumably if you were a grizzled old FS graduating IOT you'd probably leave as a Flt Lt with x years seniority. WOs are a different case as they can go through a short commissioning course.
I believe your seniority is counted from enlistment; so presumably if you were a grizzled old FS graduating IOT you'd probably leave as a Flt Lt with x years seniority. WOs are a different case as they can go through a short commissioning course.
As a grizzled FS I was quite interested in the rank you pass out of IOT with so I asked the SCLO this is the answer:-
Former Rank(FR) - WO/MACR
Rank on Graduation(RoG)- Flt lt
FR - FS/Chf Tech
RoG - Fg Off
Promotion to Flt Lt after 12 months
FR - Sgt
RoG - Fg Off
Promotion to Flt Lt 18 Months
FR - Cpl
RoG - Fg Off
Promotion to Flt Lt 2 Yrs
FR - Below Cpl
RoG - Fg Off
Promotion to Flt Lt after 2.5 Years
Hope this helps and in the mean time you mark time plus 2.5%.
If you have a degree the promotion time to Flt Lt is reduced by 6months
Former Rank(FR) - WO/MACR
Rank on Graduation(RoG)- Flt lt
FR - FS/Chf Tech
RoG - Fg Off
Promotion to Flt Lt after 12 months
FR - Sgt
RoG - Fg Off
Promotion to Flt Lt 18 Months
FR - Cpl
RoG - Fg Off
Promotion to Flt Lt 2 Yrs
FR - Below Cpl
RoG - Fg Off
Promotion to Flt Lt after 2.5 Years
Hope this helps and in the mean time you mark time plus 2.5%.
If you have a degree the promotion time to Flt Lt is reduced by 6months
I believe that you must serve at least two years non commissioned before applying for a commission and then when successful half of the time you have served counts towards commissioned service.
AP 3393 is where all the rules and regulations are laid out exactly for commissioning from the ranks.
Also the higher up the chain of command as non commissioned you are the less academic qualifications you have to have but at all ranks you have to have at least GCSE Maths and English, this is due to the promotion course which you have to attend (unless airmen aircrew who do not do JMLC/IMLC).
AP 3393 is where all the rules and regulations are laid out exactly for commissioning from the ranks.
Also the higher up the chain of command as non commissioned you are the less academic qualifications you have to have but at all ranks you have to have at least GCSE Maths and English, this is due to the promotion course which you have to attend (unless airmen aircrew who do not do JMLC/IMLC).
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