Turn on thread page Beta

POLL : Gay rights : what if you had two dads? watch

  • View Poll Results: What if you had two dads?
    agree with it
    70
    20.29%
    disagree
    130
    37.68%
    wouldn't effect my mental and social upbringing
    145
    42.03%

    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    Fair enough. I have experienced severe and sustained bullying myself, and I'm aware of the general paradigm. I just think a gay couple's rights to raise a child should be balanced against the child's right not to be discriminated against. As you say, the possibility of that happening is symptomatic of wrongs in our society, but at the same time that doesn't mean that prospective parents won't be unaware of that possibility and perhaps even cruel not to take proper consideration of it.

    That's all I was saying.
    Yes, there's something to consider. But it's not like the two parents can force themselves on the child - the child does have a role in adoption.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Papa Caesar)
    While the OP does touch on the "never known better" point, the title question does still misrepresent the issue of same-sex couples adopting. Considering that most people (and therefore most TSR users) have been raised by their two biological parents (and therefore have this biased viewpoint), it is understandable that many of the responses take into consideration whether or not the gender roles of parents are necessary. However, this isn't the right way to look at the argument, since it assumes that the options faced by the adoptee child are same-sex parents and opposite-sex parents. Due to the vast number of children in care, the choice is in fact often between same-sex parents and continued government care, neither of which would provide both of the parental gender roles on the emotional and personal level that is present in opposite-sex parenting.

    To disagree with the adoption of children by same-sex couples is to judge that a child would be better off in government care than in a stable family environment, no matter how unusual. And of course regarding the 'natural' family environment, I'm sure nature didn't intend for children to be raised in large groups by care homes either.
    Fair enough, good points.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tufc)
    It cannot be argued in this day and age that homosexuality is not a completely natural occurrence. However, given it is natural, surely if nature intended for gay people to raise children, it would have given them a way to conceive children?

    I completely disagree with gay adoption, I think it puts political correctness before the rights of chilldren.
    There is a difference between what is natural and what is right.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    If i had two dads i can imagine i would have been bullied senseless in school....
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    There is a difference between what is natural and what is right.
    What right do we have to interfere with nature?

    A traditional, non-homosexual upbringing has worked for thousands and thousands of year, who are we to change it?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tufc)
    What right do we have to interfere with nature?

    A traditional, non-homosexual upbringing has worked for thousands and thousands of year, who are we to change it?
    A progressive, homosexual upbringing is at this stage untested. Who are we to question it?

    I'm just playing devil's advocate. Aside from the homosexuality issue, I disagree with you more fundamentally that we have no right to question our nature. Our ability to do that separates us from animals. It's what makes us rational beings.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    A progressive, homosexual upbringing is at this stage untested. Who are we to question it?

    I'm just playing devil's advocate. Aside from the homosexuality issue, I disagree with you more fundamentally that we have no right to question our nature. Our ability to do that separates us from animals. It's what makes us rational beings.
    We have every right to question our own nature.
    Sometimes I ignore my instincts quite deliberately.
    But should we be testing it where the upbringing of children is concerned?
    Do we want a generation of labrats?
    I want no part in a society that risks the happiness of its children simply to demonstrate social reform.
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by aliluvschoc)
    As a girl, I think a mother is really important. I can't imagine how she would feel when she begins her periods. I'm sure the two dads would do their very best but.. I would never have dreamt of going to my dad for something like that.
    THIS
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    I would question my parents a lot tbh.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    I disagree with it strongly.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    I don't know how I would feel given I haven't been raised in that environment. If I was raised in a environment that was accepting, I would feel normal I guess.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    I can't see how people can play the "but children need both a male and a female influence" when there are so many single parent families around.....

    I don't see the problem, one of my friends is in a lesbian relationship and because of rape they now have a daughter, yet they both make fantastic parents. And I can't see also how the "but the child will get bullied..." argument should come into play either, because anyone who bullies anyone for any reason at all, needs putting up against a wall and having every bone in their body broke
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    It's a bit like having fourteen heads.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tufc)
    What right do we have to interfere with nature?

    A traditional, non-homosexual upbringing has worked for thousands and thousands of year, who are we to change it?
    My bull**** detector has actually been overloaded. Plenty of examples of homosexual parenting have been found among animal species. Not to mention that homosexual parenting doesn't even harm nature!

    On the other hand, all the mining and farming we do to produce the food you're eating, the electricty that you're burning away, the parts for the computer you're using- such things are not just interfering with nature, they are a complete obliteration of nature.

    ...I really don't feel like going on. Your argument is SO weak and full of holes that it would take needless amounts of time to outline every single, last flaw in the two sentences you wrote. I don't think I could write something so fallacious even if I tried.
    Offline

    15
    (Original post by sixthformer)
    What if you had two Dads, rather than a farther and a mother or one parent?

    How would you feel?
    I spent my early life with my dad mostly so having two of them would make no difference what so ever.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by innerhollow)
    My bull**** detector has actually been overloaded. Plenty of examples of homosexual parenting have been found among animal species. Not to mention that homosexual parenting doesn't even harm nature!

    On the other hand, all the mining and farming we do to produce the food you're eating, the electricty that you're burning away, the parts for the computer you're using- such things are not just interfering with nature, they are a complete obliteration of nature.

    ...I really don't feel like going on. Your argument is SO weak and full of holes that it would take needless amounts of time to outline every single, last flaw in the two sentences you wrote. I don't think I could write something so fallacious even if I tried.
    No. The laptop I'm using at the moment, is number 1) Using electricity, a force of nature that has been tamed. And 2) Who would it be harming? Me! It's my choice as an adult to use something you feel goes against nature. We are talking about a child here, maybe 2 years of age who is brought up in something unnatural, and has no say in it.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Plenty of people are raised just by their father or just by their mother nowadays already. They generally have aunts/uncles and other people of the opposite sex around. I don't see why a child being raised by a homosexual couple would be any different from that situation really.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lonely14)
    Damn, its must be hard for you dude. I can empathise with your situation being an Asian myself.
    Thanks man. My bf has it much worse, though. His parents are strict Muslims.


    (Original post by tufc)
    No. The laptop I'm using at the moment, is number 1) Using electricity, a force of nature that has been tamed. And 2) Who would it be harming? Me! It's my choice as an adult to use something you feel goes against nature. We are talking about a child here, maybe 2 years of age who is brought up in something unnatural, and has no say in it.
    I said it would take too long to summarise what is so wrong with what you're saying, but I'm going to do just that:


    - You use the argument that adopted children don't choose their parents... since when did non-adopted children choose theirs? :lolwut: No one chooses their circumstances of birth.

    - You equate the state of being "natural" with being moral, and then define "natural" as whatever you decide.

    - You state that heterosexual parenting has always "worked", without defining what you mean by that

    - Even if you were able to prove that, you don't realise that simply because a method has been satisfactory thus far, does not mean any alternatives should be forbidden

    - You seem to believe that all children who are not adopted by homosexual couples will be given heterosexual parents. They won't

    - You don't seem to understand that the concept of a "right" is a human construct designed to protect peope and create a better society. It is not a naturally occurring property.

    - You don't seem to understand that homosexual parenting has occurred throughout history and in other snimal species

    - You believe that electricity production doesn't harm anyone


    You're probably going to select just one of these several points and dispute it. I don't care. WHen your argument is THIS full of fallacies, just don't bother.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lewroll)
    Why would you wish some people grew up in a house like this? Everyone has the right to a mother and father in my opinion. If that is not possible, then any loving household will be the next best thing.
    Because clearly I think gay parents can do the job as well as straight parents, and the average gay man/woman, as a result of the inevitable social bias against them, will be more tolerant towards deviations from what is seen as a 'standard' lifestyle, resulting in a child who hasn't had to stifle emotions. Please don't take what I'm saying to say gay parents are better on the whole, I have absolutely no such feelings, just that they can do the job as well as a straight pair could.

    The argument tends to be 'there isn't a male and female presence', but as someone pointed out, there are males and females in all other areas in their life. The parents may have an opposite gender babysitter, teachers, neighbours, family friends, relatives.. It really isn't down to 'if both genders aren't present, both genders won't be encountered'.

    I'm not using this quote as a 'someone else said it so it must be true' kinda quote, just a little input from actual professionals in this field
    Professor Judith Stacey, of New York University, stated: “Rarely is there as much consensus in any area of social science as in the case of gay parenting, which is why the American Academy of Pediatrics and all of the major professional organizations with expertise in child welfare have issued reports and resolutions in support of gay and lesbian parental rights”
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jesse_Mac)
    Because clearly I think gay parents can do the job as well as straight parents, and the average gay man/woman, as a result of the inevitable social bias against them, will be more tolerant towards deviations from what is seen as a 'standard' lifestyle, resulting in a child who hasn't had to stifle emotions. Please don't take what I'm saying to say gay parents are better on the whole, I have absolutely no such feelings, just that they can do the job as well as a straight pair could.
    I disagree. Gay parents may be good, but they will not be as good as straight parents. If I had a child and I had to choose between giving it to an excellent gay couple or an excellent straight couple, the straight couple would win every time.
    The argument tends to be 'there isn't a male and female presence', but as someone pointed out, there are males and females in all other areas in their life. The parents may have an opposite gender babysitter, teachers, neighbours, family friends, relatives.. It really isn't down to 'if both genders aren't present, both genders won't be encountered'.
    Generally children have the strongest relationship with their parents. Gay parents are obviously missing something as otherwise the child wouldnt have to turn to other role models. A straight couple could raise a child on their own, gay couple need help.
    I'm not using this quote as a 'someone else said it so it must be true' kinda quote, just a little input from actual professionals in this field
    Professor Judith Stacey, of New York University, stated: “Rarely is there as much consensus in any area of social science as in the case of gay parenting, which is why the American Academy of Pediatrics and all of the major professional organizations with expertise in child welfare have issued reports and resolutions in support of gay and lesbian parental rights”
    As I said, gay parents may be able to do a decent job, but at the end of the day- mum and dad>everything else.
 
 
 
Poll
How are you feeling in the run-up to Results Day 2018?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.