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    We have to remember that the UK is a very desirable place to live (some bits) and that even the nastier bits are better than what they're used to at home, i work with a lovely Polish lady, and she gets much more out of living here than she would at home. She says that unemployment, and rising food prices especially are making it difficult over there, and Poland isn't a poor country. Immigration adds depth to our culture- but only when coupled with INTERGRATION. I think a lot of people miss the fact that when people are allowed to immigrate with very poor or no English and have no way of settling into the society then people become wary of them and that isoloates both sides unfortunately. Our biggest problem comes from having had a series of spineless governments, especially the last labour one. There's nothing wrong with immigration when it is balanced by both emmigration and intergration.

    Also, if certain areas of society didn't think they were better than minimum wage or cleaning, or carer work, then there wouldn't be that many jobs for the immigrants to "take", and if more people were in work the benefits system would be significantly less appealing.

    The probablilty of anything actually changing however, is miniscule, so why complain when there's very little you can do to change it? Why not try and help them instead?
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    (Original post by cybergrad)
    We are so "advanced" only because we stole everything they had and used them as free labour.


    Or maybe I should not have used past sentence, we are still doing it.....
    HA, what the hell are you on about? Go learn some history and stop crying.

    Everyone has been enslaved at some point, Africa just seems to be the only country that is still complaining about it.
    'Stole everything they had'? They had nothing to begin with so how did we still nothing? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by N.A.T.O)
    And what exactly are we supposed to have stolen ? The reason for colonialism in Africa was to secure trade routes to the far east and India.

    Did what were we supposed to have stolen ? All their fruit and veg ? :confused:
    No, people from what you call "advanced" countries stole their lands/mines or whatever or bought them very cheap. They looked for people who can work for them and paid those poor people £3/ day for a hard day's work! Then, they sell their stuff for a lot more. They've taken advantage of the less fortunate. It happened before and it is still happening now!
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    (Original post by Barden)
    Yet our glorious western education system hasn't taught you the rather massive difference between the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire :rolleyes:

    Speaking of the Roman Empire, there were several African Empires which proved to be very worthy adversaries: The Selucids, Carthage, Numida, Egypt... to name but a few.

    The only real point of divergence between Africa and Europe was, as you pointed out, the renaissance - but what began around this time? Oh yeah, the slave trade, colonialism... :facepalm:

    China was light-years ahead of the West during the renaissance, it has been quipped that Henry VII had 6 books in his library, 2 of which were on loan from a monastery, meanwhile in China, the then-Emperor had a library comprising over 20000 volumes - the collected knowledge of the civilisations the Chinese had encountered, including physics and mathematics.

    So should we worship the Chinese as you worship Aryan super-men? :dontknow:



    Yeah ok, we never seized governance and thus economic control over anyone :teehee:



    300 years of industrial development, and its rewards.

    Colonial powers stunted the growth of their vassal states, and took for theirselves what little growth there was.



    Ireland had a system very similar to the rest of Western Europe, thus when we imposed our ways on them, it did not hinder progress - also, they booted us out every 100 years or so, and were eventually successful.

    Africa on the otherhand, is not land that can be farmed by a large population. There was no poverty in Africa pre-colonisation, simply because there were far fewer people, and they weren't even trying to take the same course as Western European Civilisation (i.e. large-scale agriculture). But in come the Europeans - "No you can't hunt Wildebeest for sustenance now, you must grow crops in the rock-hard, sun-baked soil of the savanna". See where everything went wrong?
    All credit to you sir. 1+ rep well earned.
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    However much we dont like to hear it because of our multi-cultural society and our public correctness, there are currently 181,000 illegal immigrants in England alone who have over-stayed their vise by 5+ years. These people will have families here by now, using the NHS, taking our necessary jobs and benefits.
    Free for all does need to stop, if you can bring something worthwhile to out country, education, occupation, experience- then come on in.
    On the other hand, if you are coming to use our free health service and council housing, brilliant schools and generous culture then dont bother.
    Lauren,
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    (Original post by N.A.T.O)
    The industrial revolution would have happened with our without colonialism in African and India
    Indeed it would, but the first wave of globalisation would have amounted to little more than a ripple without the exploitation of foreign peoples/territories/resources and hence the industrial revolution wouldn't have had nearly the clout that it did in sum..
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    (Original post by Alhae)


    Nothing good will come to a first world country by turning it into the one on the right.
    So very ignorant and stupid of you ! Dumb statement at its best
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)

    Everyone has been enslaved at some point, Africa just seems to be the only country that is still complaining about it.
    'Stole everything they had'? They had nothing to begin with so how did we still nothing? :rolleyes:
    So true! There's too much tribal fighting and corruption in Africa, there's not a lot anyone can do about it but THEM. North Africa's having a go!
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    (Original post by N.A.T.O)
    I am very well aware of Chinas contribution to knowledge and science and I salute them for it. I don't know what you mean by aryan super men. I do not believe that any race is superior of another, if thats what you are implying
    Clearly not, given that it wasn't a contribution. They didn't share their scientific progress with the West, in fact Westeners didn't even make it to China until about 100 years after we'd created gunpowder for ourselves, about 1500 years after the Chinese.

    And what do you mean we took control of sub saharans economy ? What economy ? :rolleyes: And what growth ?
    I was referring to the middle-east and India with that point, but I also made a point about imposing an agrarian economy on sub-saharan Africa.

    Come back when you reply to my whole post? :dontknow:

    kthxbai
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    (Original post by cezz_18)
    No, people from what you call "advanced" countries stole their lands/mines or whatever or bought them very cheap. They looked for people who can work for them and paid those poor people £3/ day for a hard day's work! Then, they sell their stuff for a lot more. They've taken advantage of the less fortunate. It happened before and it is still happening now!
    £3 a day ????????????????????????

    At the time of Britains colonial occupation, you could by a house for £3.
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    (Original post by Barden)
    Clearly not, given that it wasn't a contribution. They didn't share their scientific progress with the West, in fact Westeners didn't even make it to China until about 100 years after we'd created gunpowder for ourselves, about 1500 years after the Chinese.



    I was referring to the middle-east and India with that point, but I also made a point about imposing an agrarian economy on sub-saharan Africa.

    Come back when you reply to my whole post? :dontknow:

    kthxbai
    You mean the British Raj who ruled India by invitation ?
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    (Original post by Barden)
    Yet our glorious western education system hasn't taught you the rather massive difference between the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire :rolleyes:

    Speaking of the Roman Empire, there were several African Empires which proved to be very worthy adversaries: The Selucids, Carthage, Numida, Egypt... to name but a few.

    The only real point of divergence between Africa and Europe was, as you pointed out, the renaissance - but what began around this time? Oh yeah, the slave trade, colonialism... :facepalm:

    China was light-years ahead of the West during the renaissance, it has been quipped that Henry VII had 6 books in his library, 2 of which were on loan from a monastery, meanwhile in China, the then-Emperor had a library comprising over 20000 volumes - the collected knowledge of the civilisations the Chinese had encountered, including physics and mathematics.

    So should we worship the Chinese as you worship Aryan super-men? :dontknow:



    Yeah ok, we never seized governance and thus economic control over anyone :teehee:



    300 years of industrial development, and its rewards.

    Colonial powers stunted the growth of their vassal states, and took for theirselves what little growth there was.



    Ireland had a system very similar to the rest of Western Europe, thus when we imposed our ways on them, it did not hinder progress - also, they booted us out every 100 years or so, and were eventually successful.

    Africa on the otherhand, is not land that can be farmed by a large population. There was no poverty in Africa pre-colonisation, simply because there were far fewer people, and they weren't even trying to take the same course as Western European Civilisation (i.e. large-scale agriculture). But in come the Europeans - "No you can't hunt Wildebeest for sustenance now, you must grow crops in the rock-hard, sun-baked soil of the savanna". See where everything went wrong?
    This is what a well researched and well reasoned argument looks like.

    I really don't think its that hard to grasp.
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    (Original post by N.A.T.O)
    £3 a day ????????????????????????

    At the time of Britains colonial occupation, you could by a house for £3.
    Agree with that!

    Why is it, when people say these people earn £3 a day, or 2p and hour, they NEVER put it in the perspective of that country? £3 is a LOT of money in some countries when you take the exchange rate into account!
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    (Original post by cybergrad)
    We are so "advanced" only because we stole everything they had and used them as free labour.


    Or maybe I should not have used past sentence, we are still doing it.....
    That's bulls*t. We didn't steal everything and we didn't always use free labour.
    Try and get your facts right.
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    (Original post by N.A.T.O)
    £3 a day ????????????????????????

    At the time of Britains colonial occupation, you could by a house for £3.
    I'm talking about the present times. Some even get less than £3! That's the exact reason why some people who felt sorry for them thought about 'Fair trade' ever heard of that?
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    (Original post by cezz_18)
    I'm talking about the present times. Some even get less than £3! That's the exact reason why some people who felt sorry for them thought about 'Fair trade' ever heard of that?
    What's £3 a day in their money? that could be a fortune, you never know.
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    (Original post by Jaffacakejunkie)
    Agree with that!

    Why is it, when people say these people earn £3 a day, or 2p and hour, they NEVER put it in the perspective of that country? £3 is a LOT of money in some countries when you take the exchange rate into account!
    Thank you for stating that. To be fair, £3 wouldn't be enough for food for them. You're forgetting that most bread winners in thirld world countries have large families. They don't even have enough money to send their children to school. That is somehow they're own fault and so out of the topic. I only mentioned this because someone said something about stealing fruits/vegetables. If you actually go there and see their situation yourself, you'll understand what I'm talking about!
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    (Original post by cezz_18)
    I'm talking about the present times. Some even get less than £3! That's the exact reason why some people who felt sorry for them thought about 'Fair trade' ever heard of that?
    Can I please ask what the hell are you talking about ?
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    (Original post by N.A.T.O)
    I am refering to sub saharan Africa.
    I don't think you actually realise how much of a retard you come across as on every thread. :facepalm2:

    (Original post by LaidBaqq)
    Wow. Somebody needs to do some more research.

    Ancient Egypt ring any bells? Where was that? Ah , yes Africa.

    I think you'll find that the general consensus is that Egypt was seen as the most 'advanced' ancient society.


    Go and read some books before you embarrass yourself further.
    True :yep:
    Apparently the world's first (recorded) genius was black
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    (Original post by N.A.T.O)
    You mean the British Raj who ruled India by invitation ?
    Read: coercion.

    They also massively abused this mandate.

    It clearly wasn't by invitation when they started rebelling...
 
 
 
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