Should we forgive the germans or not Watch

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magicalsausage
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#41
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#41
Well personally I wouldn't want to be personally blamed for British actions during the Boer War, British bombing of Germany during WWII, the Crusades, the terrible acts committed in various parts of the Empire...
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gemgems89
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#42
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(Original post by Howard)
No, by his own standards Benn also needs forgiving. He's a believer in historical guilt don't forget.
Well it's not our duty to forgive. Like I said before, from a quote I heard, "only the dead can forgive."
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lilmissnaughty
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#43
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the dead cant forgive, cos they are dead, hence being called 'dead people'


xxx
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]{ingnik
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(Original post by gemgems89)
Well it's not our duty to forgive. Like I said before, from a quote I heard, "only the dead can forgive."
pff, forgive who? wotd the current germans do exactly? you cant forgive a country or nation, you have to forgive the individuals within that nation who commited the crimes. its not like the next generation forgave the nazis anyway, hence war crimes trials in gd old deutschland.
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ddan
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#45
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#45
(Original post by gemgems89)
Well maybe they were scared of Hitler which is why they didn't speak out but I, personally, if it meant saving millions of lives, would speak out. Millions of people for just one life.
i would deffinetely spkout 2 bcause if it means less ppl, being killed den i wud spk out
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lilmissnaughty
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#46
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deutschland, deautschland, über alles, lalalalalalalala

hehe


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ben2111
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#47
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(Original post by gemgems89)
Well maybe they were scared of Hitler which is why they didn't speak out but I, personally, if it meant saving millions of lives, would speak out. Millions of people for just one life.
Historically seen, the problem was that people had really no idea how alone they were or not with their opinions. The groups of anti-nazis were tiny, one traitor would have killed everybody and nobody trusted nobody. And Hitler was lucky... by some abysmal fate he survived several attentats, in Munich when he left a restaurant early, minutes before a pillar exploded; when Stauffenbergs bomb did not hit him because of similar reasons etc. Sad but true...
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ddan
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#48
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#48
(Original post by lilmissnaughty)
the dead cant forgive, cos they are dead, hence being called 'dead people'


xxx
the dead can forgive wht happened ive learnt in class dat the dead an only 4 give wat happened and we cant so i think it is true
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lilmissnaughty
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#49
(Original post by ddan)
i would deffinetely spkout 2 bcause if it means less ppl, being killed den i wud spk out

you say that, but i would have liked to see you react in their situation. anyway, one voice makes no difference, it takes millions, it would simply have been a waste of a life.

xxx
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ben2111
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(Original post by ddan)
i would deffinetely spkout 2 bcause if it means less ppl, being killed den i wud spk out
If you know that the next morning a killer command knocks on your door or you get a friendly ivitation to some holiday camp? I am not defending anybody, but sorry, I do not believe you can KNOW you would speak up. Maybe you would be one of these amazing people, maybe not.
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ben2111
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#51
(Original post by lilmissnaughty)
you say that, but i would have liked to see you react in their situation. anyway, one voice makes no difference, it takes millions, it would simply have been a waste of a life.

xxx
Yes, we know what we are talking about... Germany are very thorough! They would not have forgotten you!!!
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ben2111
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(Original post by lilmissnaughty)
deutschland, deautschland, über alles, lalalalalalalala

hehe


xxx
hehe you didnt forget so far... what are you doing in Manchester? Uni? Cause I applied there ;-)
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magicalsausage
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#53
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you say that, but i would have liked to see you react in their situation. anyway, one voice makes no difference, it takes millions, it would simply have been a waste of a life.
I agree completely - it's all very well to talk about speaking out but few would (but did) speak out faced with execution and your death having little impact anyway.
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gemgems89
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#54
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(Original post by lilmissnaughty)
the dead cant forgive, cos they are dead, hence being called 'dead people'


xxx
Exactly.

We can't forgive, it happened to them.

If someone was to hit you, I couldn't forigve them for you. Only the person being hit could forgive. Hence the quote "only the dead can forgive" and since they are dead, obviously, then forgivness shouldn't happen after such a tradgedy.

I agree, that Germans who live today that are ashamed, then it's not their fault and I don't have a problem with them. It's the Germans at the time of the Holocaust that supported Hitler and helped him get what he wanted, a Jew-free, a gay-free, a gypsy-free etc world.
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lilmissnaughty
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quick qu ---- Ben .....

Are you german? or a brit liviin in germany??

(sos, relli random qu!)

xxx
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lilmissnaughty
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#56
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(Original post by ben2111)
hehe you didnt forget so far... what are you doing in Manchester? Uni? Cause I applied there ;-)

college!

my family are from heilbronn, neckar valley, near stuttgart!

xxx
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Howard
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#57
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That's amazing!

2 people on this forum have now said that "they would speak out" That's probably more than the total number who actually did speak out at the time.

Either, we're all so much morally superior than were the Germans of 50 odd years ago, or someone is seriously underestimating the amount of courage you'd really need to be to turn to a death's head SS member and say "Hey, man......leave them jews alone you racist *******" !!
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thefish_uk
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#58
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I don't think anybody can forgive the Nazis.

However, we can look at the amount of indoctrination and propaganda that went on and see how thousands of children in 1930s Germany were turned into hardcore Nazis by the very worst people, such as Adolf Hitler himself and Joseph Goebbels who masterminded the propaganda plans. They were the really really really really evil people. I don't think the dead would forgive anybody involved though. I certainly wouldn't, killing cannot be forgiven unless it is requested (euthanasia) by someone with a terminal or painful disorder.

Today's Germans are ashamed of their history, and I don't connect any of the events of the 1930s and 1940s with the German people today.
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]{ingnik
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(Original post by lilmissnaughty)
quick qu ---- Ben .....

Are you german? or a brit liviin in germany??

(sos, relli random qu!)

xxx
check out location... munich!
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gemgems89
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(Original post by Howard)
That's amazing!

2 people on this forum have now said that "they would speak out" That's probably more than the total number who actually did speak out at the time.

Either, we're all so much morally superior than were the Germans of 50 odd years ago, or someone is seriously underestimating the amount of courage you'd really need to be to turn to a death's head SS member and say "Hey, man......leave them jews alone you racist *******" !!
Well of course it's easier said than done. But maybe it wasn't because they were scared, maybe it's also because they agreed with what Hitler was doing.

And if they had the decency then they would risk just their life to save millions of others.
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