Should we forgive the germans or not Watch

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ben2111
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#61
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#61
(Original post by lilmissnaughty)
quick qu ---- Ben .....

Are you german? or a brit liviin in germany??

(sos, relli random qu!)

xxx
Yeah,I am still in Munich and, as mentioned, applied for UK unis for September entry... cause it sucks here ;-))) Well, exaggerating slightly...
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lilmissnaughty
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#62
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(Original post by gemgems89)
Exactly.

We can't forgive, it happened to them.

If someone was to hit you, I couldn't forigve them for you. Only the person being hit could forgive. Hence the quote "only the dead can forgive" and since they are dead, obviously, then forgivness shouldn't happen after such a tradgedy.

I agree, that Germans who live today that are ashamed, then it's not their fault and I don't have a problem with them. It's the Germans at the time of the Holocaust that supported Hitler and helped him get what he wanted, a Jew-free, a gay-free, a gypsy-free etc world.
i agree those germans who agreed were wrong, however one must understand that they were no necessarily exercising free will, and many were forced for fear of their lives.

i know we cant forgive for wrongs done to other people, but eg) im german and i get a lot of stick bout the death of the jews. i live in england and im only 16, so how the hell can they blame me???

xxx
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]{ingnik
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#63
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(Original post by Howard)
That's amazing!

2 people on this forum have now said that "they would speak out" That's probably more than the total number who actually did speak out at the time.

Either, we're all so much morally superior than were the Germans of 50 odd years ago, or someone is seriously underestimating the amount of courage you'd really need to be to turn to a death's head SS member and say "Hey, man......leave them jews alone you racist *******" !!
how can ppl say they would stand up 2 the nazis when its so rare for people to stand up against racists or bullys these days? this is on such a greater scale, i doubt anyone could imagine wot it would reely b like.
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gemgems89
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#64
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(Original post by thefish_uk)
I don't think anybody can forgive the Nazis.

However, we can look at the amount of indoctrination and propaganda that went on and see how thousands of children in 1930s Germany were turned into hardcore Nazis by the very worst people, such as Adolf Hitler himself and Joseph Goebbels who masterminded the propaganda plans. They were the really really really really evil people. I don't think the dead would forgive anybody involved though. I certainly wouldn't, killing cannot be forgiven unless it is requested (euthanasia) by someone with a terminal or painful disorder.

Today's Germans are ashamed of their history, and I don't connect any of the events of the 1930s and 1940s with the German people today.
Agreed totally.
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ben2111
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#65
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#65
(Original post by lilmissnaughty)
college!

my family are from heilbronn, neckar valley, near stuttgart!

xxx
What do you mean, have you lived your whole life in the UK or are YOU actually from Germany? I know Stuttgart quite well, my grandmom lives there. Its awful ;-)
Which college?
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ddan
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#66
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#66
(Original post by gemgems89)
Well of course it's easier said than done. But maybe it wasn't because they were scared, maybe it's also because they agreed with what Hitler was doing.

And if they had the decency then they would risk just their life to save millions of others.
dats wat i wud do i wud spk up and risk my own lieto save millions of ppl
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gemgems89
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#67
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#67
(Original post by lilmissnaughty)
i agree those germans who agreed were wrong, however one must understand that they were no necessarily exercising free will, and many were forced for fear of their lives.

i know we cant forgive for wrongs done to other people, but eg) im german and i get a lot of stick bout the death of the jews. i live in england and im only 16, so how the hell can they blame me???

xxx
You are not to blame if you didn't have any involvment, just remember that.

If you totally are ashamed of what they've done then it's not your fault.
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lilmissnaughty
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#68
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#68
(Original post by ]{ingnik)
check out location... munich!

u dnt have to actually be german to live in germany, jus like i dont have to be british to live in englad

xxx
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kildare
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#69
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#69
(Original post by lilmissnaughty)
i .

i know we cant forgive for wrongs done to other people, but eg) im german and i get a lot of stick bout the death of the jews. i live in england and im only 16, so how the hell can they blame me???

xxx
They can't (well I suppose they can, but it's utterly irrational).
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ThornsnRoses
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#70
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#70
(Original post by ddan)
its been i very long time since the holacaust and as today if the holicaust rememberance day do u think we should forive the germans or not for wat they did to the jewish ppl and all the ppl dat got killed in auschwitz and birkenau. 6 million ppl got killed so is it time 2 forgive or not.

Its partly the allies to blame aswell...its not just the Germans!
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thefish_uk
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#71
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(Original post by gemgems89)
Well of course it's easier said than done. But maybe it wasn't because they were scared, maybe it's also because they agreed with what hitler was doing.

And if they had the decency then they would risk jus their life to save millions of others.
They would, but we looked at the amount of indoctrination (is that my word of the day? how many times have I used it) and propaganda that went on. Stuff like calculating the paths of artillery shells in children's maths textbooks, and forcing people to make mental links between the words "Jews" and "aliens" to work out answers to statistical questions.

The truth is, people's personalities were shaped so they saw Jews as nothing but animals. I say that the people who did the killing, even if they were under the influence of this awful propaganda, were still responsible. But the real people behind it were the people at the top such as Hitler and Goebbels who had a passion against the Jews and created the campaigns that drove the anti-semitism forward.
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gemgems89
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#72
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#72
(Original post by ]{ingnik)
how can ppl say they would stand up 2 the nazis when its so rare for people to stand up against racists or bullys these days? this is on such a greater scale, i doubt anyone could imagine wot it would reely b like.
And I'm sure we don't want to imagine what it'd be like.

But we wouldn't go to a Nazi and speak out. We would go to the English or Americans for help, discreetly. But it's hypothetical really.
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thefish_uk
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#73
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(Original post by gemgems89)
Agreed totally.
Aw thanks,

Our Nazi Germany depth study in history was useful for something.
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lilmissnaughty
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(Original post by ben2111)
What do you mean, have you lived your whole life in the UK or are YOU actually from Germany? I know Stuttgart quite well, my grandmom lives there. Its awful ;-)
Which college?
ive lived in the uk my whole life, however spend like 6 weeks a yr in germany cos my whole fanily live there.

My brother lives in stuttgart - not v nice!

Im at withington girls' - best in england according tot he times newspaper! hehe!

xxx
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ben2111
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(Original post by thefish_uk)
I don't think anybody can forgive the Nazis.

However, we can look at the amount of indoctrination and propaganda that went on and see how thousands of children in 1930s Germany were turned into hardcore Nazis by the very worst people, such as Adolf Hitler himself and Joseph Goebbels who masterminded the propaganda plans. They were the really really really really evil people. I don't think the dead would forgive anybody involved though. I certainly wouldn't, killing cannot be forgiven unless it is requested (euthanasia) by someone with a terminal or painful disorder.

Today's Germans are ashamed of their history, and I don't connect any of the events of the 1930s and 1940s with the German people today.
I agree. Because they were not only evil but also really really really really smart it is hard to judge sometimes. I mean I really shouldnt be saying that here but my grandmom was quite a nazi. She was young (born in 1915 or so) and tremendouly influenced by all the great youth clubs the nazis ran ("Hitlerjugend"), the camps they organised, the fun they had. I think she never got over the shock when everything finished in 45, Germany looked like the moon and it had all been a big,big mistake.
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Howard
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#76
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(Original post by gemgems89)
Well of course it's easier said than done. But maybe it wasn't because they were scared, maybe it's also because they agreed with what Hitler was doing.

And if they had the decency then they would risk just their life to save millions of others.
Yes, I think you've about hit the nail on the head actually. The fact is that many Germans simply didn't lose a wink of sleep over the fact the jewish populations of their cities started to rapidly vanish.

Not just Germany though. There were very few non-jewish tears shed in Warsaw when the Germans, (assisted by Polish SS units), rounded up and quartered the jewish population in what became the Warsaw getto.
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gemgems89
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(Original post by Howard)
Yes, I think you've about hit the nail on the head actually. The fact is that many Germans simply didn't lose a wink of sleep over the fact the jewish populations of their cities started to rapidly vanish.

Not just Germany though. There were very few non-jewish tears shed in Warsaw when the Germans, (assisted by Polish SS units), rounded up and quartered the jewish population in what became the Warsaw getto.
Indeed.

Well I'm going to Poland in April to see Auschwitz, will be very emotional but interesting and should change the prospective of things.
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ben2111
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#78
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I think the last fee election in Germany might give a pretty good picture about the distribution of the attitudes - an SPD voter would not have a problem with Jews, I suppose. I think Hitler got some 30% but I am really not sure. Enough idiots, by the way!
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Dickie
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#79
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(Original post by thefish_uk)
They would, but we looked at the amount of indoctrination (is that my word of the day? how many times have I used it) and propaganda that went on. Stuff like calculating the paths of artillery shells in children's maths textbooks, and forcing people to make mental links between the words "Jews" and "aliens" to work out answers to statistical questions.

The truth is, people's personalities were shaped so they saw Jews as nothing but animals. I say that the people who did the killing, even if they were under the influence of this awful propaganda, were still responsible. But the real people behind it were the people at the top such as Hitler and Goebbels who had a passion against the Jews and created the campaigns that drove the anti-semitism forward.
you've got to remember that, even before Hitler came to power, many Germans hated Jews anyway, but not the the extent of what the Nazi party did. The propaganda was to make Germans *really* hate the Jews, so that when Hitler wanted "the Final Solution", the Germans wouldn't bat an eyelid.
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ben2111
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#80
(Original post by lilmissnaughty)
ive lived in the uk my whole life, however spend like 6 weeks a yr in germany cos my whole fanily live there.

My brother lives in stuttgart - not v nice!

Im at withington girls' - best in england according tot he times newspaper! hehe!

xxx
Do you speak German then? I mean not that you would ever really need it in your life ;-)
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