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    there has been much talk about scottish independence. However, would it be of benefit to the scots? or do we need england to support us?
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    Please don't do this; it's been covered a million times, and it never ends well.

    Cue Scottish GDP figures compared to English ones, and the usual argument that England is only high because London props it up, and the rebuttal that Edinburgh and Glasgow prop Scotland up.
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    I strongly support Scottish Independence.

    I would rather Scotland take full responsibility for itself. We need our own voice in the EU and at the UN.

    It would improve democracy for Scotland. At present we only have a small say in the UK which means that, while we aspire to be a social-democratic country, we are unable to do so because the centre-right political viewpoints from the South of England hold such a large percentage of the UK population and votes.
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    (Original post by superscot)
    I strongly support Scottish Independence.

    I would rather Scotland take full responsibility for itself. We need our own voice in the EU and at the UN.

    It would improve democracy for Scotland. At present we only have a small say in the UK which means that, while we aspire to be a social-democratic country, we are unable to do so because the centre-right political viewpoints from the South of England hold such a large percentage of the UK population and votes.
    On your final point, what happens if an area of Scotland, after independence, aspires to be something else, say, communist or libertarian? Using your logic, should it be allowed to break away from Scotland to 'improve its democracy'?
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    (Original post by superscot)
    I strongly support Scottish Independence.

    I would rather Scotland take full responsibility for itself. We need our own voice in the EU and at the UN.

    It would improve democracy for Scotland. At present we only have a small say in the UK which means that, while we aspire to be a social-democratic country, we are unable to do so because the centre-right political viewpoints from the South of England hold such a large percentage of the UK population and votes.
    We don't have 'a small voice' in the UK at all. I think devolution was definitely the best solution here. In fact I'd almost go as far in saying that Scotland holds more power than England in some cases. Does the West lothian question ring any bells? I'd hate to see the break up of the UK.
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    No Scotland should not have its independence. It is stronger as part of the UK.




    (Original post by superscot)
    I strongly support Scottish Independence.

    I would rather Scotland take full responsibility for itself. We need our own voice in the EU and at the UN.

    It would improve democracy for Scotland. At present we only have a small say in the UK which means that, while we aspire to be a social-democratic country, we are unable to do so because the centre-right political viewpoints from the South of England hold such a large percentage of the UK population and votes.

    Scotland would not have much of a say in the EU or UN.
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    I fully support Glasgow independence. Infact they should build a wall around it's borders to stop other Scots getting in and more importantly stopping them getting out. Everyones a winner.
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    Everything works better when we are one and not only in the Scottish case but for all the countries of the UK. I don't really understand what this silly obsession with independance is. Is it out of a stupid nationalistic urge or what?
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    (Original post by The_resurrection)
    I fully support Glasgow independence. Infact they should build a wall around it's borders to stop other Scots getting in and more importantly stopping them getting out. Everyones a winner.
    We can do that with Liverpool and Birmingham too.
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    (Original post by pamelaa)
    No, I was pointing out the fact that this idea of 'Glasgow independence' you propose surely defeats the idea of independence in itself.

    Goodbye you ****ing retarded keyboard warrior :laugh:
    In what way horse features?
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    Yes, let them have independence. I am English, and I don't see why the UK should continue.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Please don't do this; it's been covered a million times, and it never ends well.

    Cue Scottish GDP figures compared to English ones, and the usual argument that England is only high because London props it up, and the rebuttal that Edinburgh and Glasgow prop Scotland up.
    There should be a sticky for it. Comes up every month or so.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Please don't do this; it's been covered a million times, and it never ends well.

    Cue Scottish GDP figures compared to English ones, and the usual argument that England is only high because London props it up, and the rebuttal that Edinburgh and Glasgow prop Scotland up.
    lol.. This is no different to most other countries in the world. Paris supports French GDP, New York City, Los Angeles, Houston, etc. support US GDP, Tokyo supports Japanese GDP, etc.

    I don't think there is a rational reason to oppose Scottish independence. IMO, most English persons should support independence for England.
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    (Original post by superscot)
    I strongly support Scottish Independence.

    I would rather Scotland take full responsibility for itself. We need our own voice in the EU and at the UN.

    It would improve democracy for Scotland. At present we only have a small say in the UK which means that, while we aspire to be a social-democratic country, we are unable to do so because the centre-right political viewpoints from the South of England hold such a large percentage of the UK population and votes.
    That's literally the worst logic I've heard in arguing the case for the independence of any entity. Basically because Scottish voters are idiots and keep on voting for Labour and the SNP, you should be independent?

    I suppose that Cornwall should be independent because of the tradition in Lib Dem support there? That parts of London should be parcelled up into independent states depending on which way they voted at the last election? Brighton Pavilion should be an independent eco-conscious city-state? There is nowhere to draw the line with that logic - once you start it's hard to stop.

    You can't just disregard the vote from the rest of the nation because you don't like it. That's the way democracy goes - not everyone agrees in the best course of action, so everyone gets a turn to **** things up differently, sometimes by spending too much, and sometimes by spending too little. Labour had it's chance, and it succeeded (at failing) spectacularly, now it's the turn of the Tories and Lib Dems. Democracy works not through people all having the same views and agreeing on a course of action without checks and balances, as it seems you'd like for Scotland, but through people of radically different views challenging each other openly on the merits of their ideas in the public domain. If it was just a bunch of socialists running Scotland unchecked by a centrist or right-wing influence, then sooner or later you'd be bankrupt and a failed state because you'd have an ideological dictatorship, and the same is true in the opposite situation.

    Suck it up - Scotland has no real case for independence.
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    (Original post by Genocidal)
    Everything works better when we are one and not only in the Scottish case but for all the countries of the UK. I don't really understand what this silly obsession with independance is. Is it out of a stupid nationalistic urge or what?
    Its just the way we are brought up.

    If the normans had been victorious in Hastings (its been 6yrs since I studied that so sorry if its wrong) and modern France was mainland france, england scotland, wales and ireland (the french would of treated us like people, not rats, so there I doubt there would of been an effective fenian movement). And all the decisions were made in Paris not london, and Sarkozy was your leader you would be wanting independance to.

    You clearly take your indepenace for granted. Prehaps you should be a little bit more greatful and stop crying when those of us with no independance want to taste it.
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    Its the braveheart generation.........i hate mel gibson

    anyway my view is Scotland is rather fully with us or nothing, i don’t like devolution it just adds more bureaucracy and over time will end up with Scotland being independent because they will gradually want more power year after year. Oh and yes I want Scotland to stay....just
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    Why is there so much discussion over scottish independence specifically? I never see anyone suggesting even remotely that Wales or NI should become independent, and equally I have never heard of, for instance, an American state discussing independence, so what is it about Scotland?
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    (Original post by Bobifier)
    Why is there so much discussion over scottish independence specifically? I never see anyone suggesting even remotely that Wales or NI should become independent, and equally I have never heard of, for instance, an American state discussing independence, so what is it about Scotland?
    lol.
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    There is an equally vocal Welsh independence lobby, and NI is more complex due to the Catholic/Protestant issue.

    Most countries in some sense have a regional independence movement. There are a few even in the US.
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    (Original post by bestofyou)
    Its just the way we are brought up.

    If the normans had been victorious in Hastings (its been 6yrs since I studied that so sorry if its wrong) and modern France was mainland france, england scotland, wales and ireland (the french would of treated us like people, not rats, so there I doubt there would of been an effective fenian movement). And all the decisions were made in Paris not london, and Sarkozy was your leader you would be wanting independance to.

    You clearly take your indepenace for granted. Prehaps you should be a little bit more greatful and stop crying when those of us with no independance want to taste it.
    The concept of independance mattered much more in the past. In this day and age is pretty meaningless especially with the rise of organisations such as the EU which moves everyone towards centralisation.

    And if a country gained independance like Scotland then what would happen? Some people would cheer about it and then it would be back to normal from then on. What's the point? It's a waste of time. The concept of nationalism is nothing but an outdated idea and as countries move closer and things become more centralised with organisations such as the EU. The very concept of seperate countries themselves lose meaning.
 
 
 
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