Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Yes because privatisation has worked SOOOO well for the railways hasn't it?

    Pillock
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    I am guessing you live in London or another big city, for a lot of people cars are essential and without one they couldn't get any where. The NHS also funds a lot of nonessential things.

    Why is it less fair for the people who don't use healthcare to pay for it? It is less fair because you are paying for something you don't want. If I got a gang to come around your house with guns and forcibly take everything valuable in your house in order to fund the manufactue of cocaine in columbia it would clearly be wrong. It doesn't make it any more acceptable if I say you can come over to columbia when ever you want and sniff all the coke you can. This is in effect what happens with the NHS, people are threatend with prison, closing down of their businesses etc so they pay tax. The tax is then not spent on them it is spent on something they don't even want.

    Should people who never use public transport or state schools not pay taxes towards them? No
    So you don't use roads, drink water or eat food then.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Great idea next time you are dying of a heart attack and can't afford treatment then tough luck.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Maker)
    So you don't use roads, drink water or eat food then.

    Yes I do and I would be quite happy to pay for them at the full cost. Everybody uses them but because of progressive taxes some pay more than others. The NHS is not there in order to produce the best and most effcient healthcare system, it is there to try and redistribute income a little.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    I am guessing you live in London or another big city, for a lot of people cars are essential and without one they couldn't get any where. The NHS also funds a lot of nonessential things.
    Actually, whilst I go to uni in Brighton, I live a bit outside of Stoke-on-Trent. In the countryside. A car is very useful, and whilst I much prefer to drive, it is possible to get around without one.

    (Original post by Sternumator)
    Why is it less fair for the people who don't use healthcare to pay for it? It is less fair because you are paying for something you don't want. If I got a gang to come around your house with guns and forcibly take everything valuable in your house in order to fund the manufactue of cocaine in columbia it would clearly be wrong. It doesn't make it any more acceptable if I say you can come over to columbia when ever you want and sniff all the coke you can. This is in effect what happens with the NHS, people are threatend with prison, closing down of their businesses etc so they pay tax. The tax is then not spent on them it is spent on something they don't even want.
    In this scenario, however, you are giving me the choice of going over to do some coke, and I can decide whether or not I am going to do that. If you get hit by a car or have a heart attack, you will be taken to an NHS A and E, because there are no private A and Es. You don't always have a choice about using the NHS, and so should pay for it for the chance that you will.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    Yes I do and I would be quite happy to pay for them at the full cost. Everybody uses them but because of progressive taxes some pay more than others. The NHS is not there in order to produce the best and most effcient healthcare system, it is there to try and redistribute income a little.
    Do you think you have contributed enough taxes to pay for a resevoir for your water, the road you use or the public health inspectors that make your food safe?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    So that health care is only available to the wealthy, just like in the States? The best thing Britain has got going is the health care system. Doesnt it feel good to appear at a hospital with a problem without being probed for Insurance or then being given a large bill.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Ok. I'm just going to say this:
    Taxes are essential in society. Who pays for all of the road maintenance, street lights and all other public goods? The tax payer. They could never be privatized as it wouldn't be profitable. Ever heard of the free rider problem? Look it up. You may think differently about taxes.
    You will never truly know when you need the NHS. By paying taxes, you know you will have the knowledge that if you were in trouble, you could get help without someone asking "hand over the cash first". America's healthcare is terrible, unless of course you're really rich. But even then it's likely that you will go under treatment which isn't even needed just so they can charge you and make more money. Some things should never be privatized, one of them being healthcare.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Maker)
    Do you think you have contributed enough taxes to pay for a resevoir for your water, the road you use or the public health inspectors that make your food safe?
    No I haven't done a day of reported work in my life but hopefully in a couple of years I will be paying loads of tax. My parents do pay for water though which should cover the whole cost, they also pay for me to use the roads which far exceeds the amount the government spends on them and public health inspectors can piss off because I should be free to buy what I want.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    No I haven't done a day of reported work in my life .
    This explains everything
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    There are always going to be pros and cons when considering privatising any service. I honestly believe we do not need to be black or white, I hope we as a nation will reach some form of happy medium whereby we develop the NHS to concentrate on chronic conditions and emergencies while the private market takes care of acute conditions. Given the current strain on the NHS the private market is already evolving to plug the gaps, I just hope the two will be able to work in harmony moving forward.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    No I haven't done a day of reported work in my life but hopefully in a couple of years I will be paying loads of tax. My parents do pay for water though which should cover the whole cost, they also pay for me to use the roads which far exceeds the amount the government spends on them and public health inspectors can piss off because I should be free to buy what I want.
    You haven't work... Exactly.
    But... The amount your parents have paid in taxes won't actually cover the amount it costs to have these things available to you. We pay a small amount of the actual cost.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    You haven't work... Exactly.
    But... The amount your parents have paid in taxes won't actually cover the amount it costs to have these things available to you. We pay a small amount of the actual cost.
    So who pays the rest? Only people can pay for these things. My parents probably haven't paid the full cost because they are only average earners. That means that some rich person has paid for my water which is unfair on them.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    So who pays the rest? Only people can pay for these things. My parents probably haven't paid the full cost because they are only average earners. That means that some rich person has paid for my water which is unfair on them.
    Capitalism isn't a fair system. It's supposed to mean everyone gets a chance to earn high pay depending on how hard they work for it... But this doesn't happen. While some people can over-come the chances, the majority of people in the higher band of pay were born into a family in the similar situation. Meaning if you're born into a working-class family, the chances are that you will remain like that no matter how hard you work.
    Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but generally this is the case.

    Having higher-earners contribute more to society is not unfair. Most people who are working-class are not there through lack of effort, why is it fair that they shouldn't receive the same care as everyone else?

    The NHS is one of the best things about this country; it means everyone of all backgrounds can receive the care they need. It is the responsibility of the government to provide this, and actually it costs us hardly anything compared to how much insurance would cost in a private system.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Nah.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alhae)
    Our cancer survival rates are pisspoor and waiting lists are too long. The US doesn't suffer either of these problems because it is not the taxpayers that pay for everyones' healthcare, it is themselves. End the nonsense now and privatise the NHS. If you disagree with me then it shows that you cannot face the truth.
    Singapore has the best of both world's.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Singapore

    Better than both the USA and the UK.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Capitalism isn't a fair system. It's supposed to mean everyone gets a chance to earn high pay depending on how hard they work for it... But this doesn't happen. While some people can over-come the chances, the majority of people in the higher band of pay were born into a family in the similar situation. Meaning if you're born into a working-class family, the chances are that you will remain like that no matter how hard you work.
    Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but generally this is the case.

    Having higher-earners contribute more to society is not unfair. Most people who are working-class are not there through lack of effort, why is it fair that they shouldn't receive the same care as everyone else?

    The NHS is one of the best things about this country; it means everyone of all backgrounds can receive the care they need. It is the responsibility of the government to provide this, and actually it costs us hardly anything compared to how much insurance would cost in a private system.
    Nearly everybody on a high wage has worked extremely hard for it and people on low wage generally work less hard, although obviously there are loads of exceptions to this. A working class person who becomes a doctor has to do an equal amount of work as a middle class kid, assuming they are of equal ability, because the tests are the same. State schools are good enough for most people to get into a good uni and earn a good wage if they try hard. the chances are that you will remain like that no matter how hard you work. I disagree with this completely. It is true that people from working classes stay there but they have an opportunity to get out it is just most waste it. I went to a crappy comp and most of the people from the local estate are now unemployed and none will go to uni but that is because they were the ones who were disrupting lessons, hardly bothering to turn up and never doing their homework. Most of the kids of the higher earning parents are now going to uni. They both went to the same school and had the same opportunities it is just the working class kids choose to waste them. My Dad works in a factory and completly blames his background for not getting a highly paid job but the actual reason is he couldn't be arsed to go back to school for his A levels. He says that nobody from his background did it so he didn't, I am sure if he had been born to doctors he would have gone back to school but he still had the option so he is totally to blame not the system. Any way, the system shouldn't be designed to reward the most effort it should be designed to give people the freedom to do what they want.
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jack McGill)
    Singapore has the best of both world's.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Singapore

    Better than both the USA and the UK.
    *Sigh*....
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    Nearly everybody on a high wage has worked extremely hard for it and people on low wage generally work less hard, although obviously there are loads of exceptions to this.
    Well if there are loads of exceptions, then why bother making the generalisation?? Generalisations and stereotypes that have loads of exceptions are not exactly accurate.

    (Original post by Sternumator)
    A working class person who becomes a doctor has to do an equal amount of work as a middle class kid
    Debatable.
    If the middle class kid went to a better school (which is often the case), then they would have had more support from the teachers.

    (Original post by Sternumator)
    they have an opportunity to get out it
    Not always.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    Nearly everybody on a high wage has worked extremely hard for it and people on low wage generally work less hard, although obviously there are loads of exceptions to this. A working class person who becomes a doctor has to do an equal amount of work as a middle class kid, assuming they are of equal ability, because the tests are the same. State schools are good enough for most people to get into a good uni and earn a good wage if they try hard. the chances are that you will remain like that no matter how hard you work. I disagree with this completely. It is true that people from working classes stay there but they have an opportunity to get out it is just most waste it. I went to a crappy comp and most of the people from the local estate are now unemployed and none will go to uni but that is because they were the ones who were disrupting lessons, hardly bothering to turn up and never doing their homework. Most of the kids of the higher earning parents are now going to uni. They both went to the same school and had the same opportunities it is just the working class kids choose to waste them. My Dad works in a factory and completly blames his background for not getting a highly paid job but the actual reason is he couldn't be arsed to go back to school for his A levels. He says that nobody from his background did it so he didn't, I am sure if he had been born to doctors he would have gone back to school but he still had the option so he is totally to blame not the system. Any way, the system shouldn't be designed to reward the most effort it should be designed to give people the freedom to do what they want.
    You are incredibly naive if you actually think this, I'm sorry but seriously...
    A working-class person who is a doctor would have had to work much harder to get into the business, generally. I don't think you understand how these thigns work. A lot of this sort of thing depends on knowing people, and you mostly only have the right contacts if your parents are either in the profession, or have a lot of money to "help you along".
    Most working-class people don't work hard? That is a load of *******s. Most working-class people work extremely hard, and just can't get out of the situation.

    Aside from the previously mentioned things... There are plenty of other things you don't seem to realise about children who "mis-behave" and "not try"... Capitalist society actually makes them more likely to to be that way. I'd rather not go into that in detail, just look up marxist theory on education and stuff.

    Basically... You really should realise that most working-class people are not there because they couldn't be bothered, most of them work really hard but just don't have the same opportunities.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Brexit voters: Do you stand by your vote?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.