Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Well if there are loads of exceptions, then why bother making the generalisation?? Generalisations and stereotypes that have loads of exceptions are not exactly accurate.



    Debatable.
    If the middle class kid went to a better school (which is often the case), then they would have had more support from the teachers.



    Not always.
    Exactly. ^and better support from parents because those on better wages have more TIME to spend with their children. (Either because both don't need to work, or they don't need to work ridiculous over-time like a lot of working-class parents do just to make ends meet).
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    A working-class person who is a doctor would have had to work much harder to get into the business, generally. I don't think you understand how these thigns work. A lot of this sort of thing depends on knowing people, and you mostly only have the right contacts if your parents are either in the profession, or have a lot of money to "help you along"
    To expand on this bit a little.

    With a lot of professions, it can help your chances hugely if you can get a foot in the door ahead of everyone else. Knowing someone already in the profession helps you do this, as does having rich parents who can help you survive when doing unpaid internships.

    The last bit about unpaid internships and roles is especially true in journalism and politics. It doesn't make it impossible for working class people to go into those areas, but it does make it harder.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    To expand on this bit a little.

    With a lot of professions, it can help your chances hugely if you can get a foot in the door ahead of everyone else. Knowing someone already in the profession helps you do this, as does having rich parents who can help you survive when doing unpaid internships.
    Exactly what I was trying to say
    People with well off parents have much more of a chance to get into all kinds of professions.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    You are incredibly naive if you actually think this, I'm sorry but seriously...
    A working-class person who is a doctor would have had to work much harder to get into the business, generally. I don't think you understand how these thigns work. A lot of this sort of thing depends on knowing people, and you mostly only have the right contacts if your parents are either in the profession, or have a lot of money to "help you along".
    Most working-class people don't work hard? That is a load of *******s. Most working-class people work extremely hard, and just can't get out of the situation.

    Aside from the previously mentioned things... There are plenty of other things you don't seem to realise about children who "mis-behave" and "not try"... Capitalist society actually makes them more likely to to be that way. I'd rather not go into that in detail, just look up marxist theory on education and stuff.

    Basically... You really should realise that most working-class people are not there because they couldn't be bothered, most of them work really hard but just don't have the same opportunities.
    A working class person does not have to work harder to be a doctor it is the same for everybody of equal ability. The GCSE exams are the same difficulty and so are A levels, the working class people probably learn the stuff from the same textbook. You must be completly deluded if you think that there is some kind of old boys network where the admission tutors at medical schools reject all the poor kids and accept the people who went to their school or bribe them. In fact it is probably easier for the poor kid because the universities have to be seen to be letting working class students in. A capitalist society discourages people to do this because if you don't employ the poor kid,even though he is better at the job, then the next employer will, they will be more efficent and it will cost you money.

    Edit: A large proportion of people who work in steel works are from working class backgrounds but this does not mean that it is harder for a person from an upper class to become a steal worker, they just choose not to.

    I am pretty much a working class kid, I have no contacts what so ever, my parents have no money to give me. The country is full of opportunities and I feel like with hard work anything is possible. At the moment I have nothing and I might end up as a blue collar worker but I would much rather have a shot at doing well and the freedom to try than have more benefits or whatever.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    A working class person does not have to work harder to be a doctor it is the same for everybody of equal ability.
    I'm not sure about being a doctor, but certainly for a lot of professions (Journalism and politics are two) then getting experience in the profession is essential. Most often that not, this experience is unpaid. This means 2 things:

    1 - Those who know people in those professions have it easier finding positions.
    2 - Those who have richer parents can afford to work for nothing.

    Both are facts that you cannot ignore.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    I'm not sure about being a doctor, but certainly for a lot of professions (Journalism and politics are two) then getting experience in the profession is essential. Most often that not, this experience is unpaid. This means 2 things:

    1 - Those who know people in those professions have it easier finding positions.
    2 - Those who have richer parents can afford to work for nothing.

    Both are facts that you cannot ignore.
    Ye Ill give you that one. I was trying to pounch on the bad example choosen, out of all the well paid professions a doctor is probably where this one goes on least. I do think it is not as important as people think and it does not happen as much as it did 20 years ago. But just because in some professions it is a little easier for people with contacts to get work experiance it doesn't mean all working class people are doomed to a life of poverty. Ok so in journalism it happens, I am sure you can find somewhere in the country to do experiance, you can put yourself out there and try and meet people yourself or if all else fails you can do another profession. It obviously doesn't come close to a justification for getting rid of the capitalist system.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    Bad idea, NHS isn't the best but it's good enough - it's amazing if you can't afford private healthcare!
    Privatising would also lead to massive job losses because it'd be based on profit rather than highest quality - lets not forget the NHS is the 3rd biggest employer in the world...
    Also, I had an eye operation a few years back - if I hadn't had it I could have become partially sighted. To have that operation privately it would have costed about £7000. My family are comfortable and still couldn't afford that!

    There is no denying that the NHS needs reforming, but privatisation is not the only option. Mass privatisation in this country hasn't exactly made things better over the years. Privatisation opens doors to efficiency... but it also opens doors to exploitation.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    A working class person does not have to work harder to be a doctor it is the same for everybody of equal ability. The GCSE exams are the same difficulty and so are A levels, the working class people probably learn the stuff from the same textbook. You must be completly deluded if you think that there is some kind of old boys network where the admission tutors at medical schools reject all the poor kids and accept the people who went to their school or bribe them. In fact it is probably easier for the poor kid because the universities have to be seen to be letting working class students in. A capitalist society discourages people to do this because if you don't employ the poor kid,even though he is better at the job, then the next employer will, they will be more efficent and it will cost you money.

    I am pretty much a working class kid, I have no contacts what so ever, my parents have no money to give me. The country is full of opportunities and I feel like with hard work anything is possible. At the moment I have nothing and I might end up as a blue collar worker but I would much rather have a shot at doing well and the freedom to try than have more benefits or whatever.
    No. You clearly know nothing about becoming a doctor, so I suggest you don't tell me I'm wrong when you have no idea.
    What I (and someone else) has said is completely true. To become a doctor, aside from the money needed to get the qualifications, you certainly need experience behind you. This often means unpaid work, like internships. These places are limited and very competitive, which means that those people from better-off families have more chance because they can afford to work for free for a long time, and that those with family members in the business (who would be well-off too) are more likely to be offered a place.

    The same goes for professions like Welshbluebird mentioned.
    It goes for MOST of the higher paid professions... Hence my point.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    A working class person does not have to work harder to be a doctor it is the same for everybody of equal ability. The GCSE exams are the same difficulty and so are A levels, the working class people probably learn the stuff from the same textbook. You must be completly deluded if you think that there is some kind of old boys network where the admission tutors at medical schools reject all the poor kids and accept the people who went to their school or bribe them. In fact it is probably easier for the poor kid because the universities have to be seen to be letting working class students in. A capitalist society discourages people to do this because if you don't employ the poor kid,even though he is better at the job, then the next employer will, they will be more efficent and it will cost you money.

    I am pretty much a working class kid, I have no contacts what so ever, my parents have no money to give me. The country is full of opportunities and I feel like with hard work anything is possible. At the moment I have nothing and I might end up as a blue collar worker but I would much rather have a shot at doing well and the freedom to try than have more benefits or whatever.
    How do you know what advantages someone from a well connected family can get if you have never been in that situation? You are only speaking from personal experience which by definition is very limited.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    No. You clearly know nothing about becoming a doctor, so I suggest you don't tell me I'm wrong when you have no idea.
    What I (and someone else) has said is completely true. To become a doctor, aside from the money needed to get the qualifications, you certainly need experience behind you. This often means unpaid work, like internships. These places are limited and very competitive, which means that those people from better-off families have more chance because they can afford to work for free for a long time, and that those with family members in the business (who would be well-off too) are more likely to be offered a place.

    The same goes for professions like Welshbluebird mentioned.
    It goes for MOST of the higher paid professions... Hence my point.
    As well as all if this, kids with a working class background have another major disadvantage. They don't fully understand the value of education at such a young age. It is most probable that their parents are uneducated and so won't be encouraging their children to work hard on their studies, unlike children from middle class backgrounds. These Kids and those who are also brought up in a run down area are surrounded by no motivation. They've never been encouraged to work hard so why would they? It's not their fault that they have been born into the position they're in. You'll find the majority of working class children follow the footsteps of their parents and so the theme will continue for generations. This needs to be stopped by focussing on helping and motivating those from run down and uneducated backgrounds. Of course there are always exceptions to things though. Just to note, I apologise for any generalisations people feel I have made and by no means do I think that working class people are stupid, some just have never been shown their full potential.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ConorMC)
    As well as all if this, kids with a working class background have another major disadvantage. They don't fully understand the value of education at such a young age. It is most probable that their parents are uneducated and so won't be encouraging their children to work hard on their studies, unlike children from middle class backgrounds. These Kids and those who are also brought up in a run down area are surrounded by no motivation. They've never been encouraged to work hard so why would they? It's not their fault that they have been born into the position they're in. You'll find the majority of working class children follow the footsteps of their parents and so the theme will continue for generations. This needs to be stopped by focussing on helping and motivating those from run down and uneducated backgrounds. Of course there are always exceptions to things though. Just to note, I apologise for any generalisations people feel I have made and by no means do I think that working class people are stupid, some just have never been shown their full potential.
    Exactly my point
    I can be lazy in explaining myself I think.

    Do you agree with most of Marxist theory, or do you just recognise some of its points?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Exactly my point
    I can be lazy in explaining myself I think.

    Do you agree with most of Marxist theory, or do you just recognise some of its points?
    Oh, I definately agree with most of it. What about yourself? Social inequality frustrates me.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ConorMC)
    Oh, I definately agree with most of it. What about yourself? Social inequality frustrates me.
    Yeah I'm the same I guess. I mean, there may be aspects I'd disagree with, I always try to remain critical of things, but I definitely hate social inequality and will always voice my opinion on it.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Yeah I'm the same I guess. I mean, there may be aspects I'd disagree with, I always try to remain critical of things, but I definitely hate social inequality and will always voice my opinion on it.
    His whole theory on the working class overthrowing the capitalist system is a bit unrealistic in this day of age IMO. I believe that they will never rise up due to a) political apathy among the working class nowadays and b) due to the lack of encouragement they get to change things/make a difference and to be interested in politics (isn't helped by the political apathy). You could argue that a revolution doesn't need to have stemmed from politics, but I also think a lot of working class people don't believe they can make any difference, which is one of the worse things.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ConorMC)
    His whole theory on the working class overthrowing the capitalist system is a bit unrealistic in this day of age IMO. I believe that they will never rise up due to a) political apathy among the working class nowadays and b) due to the lack of encouragement they get to change things/make a difference and to be interested in politics (isn't helped by the political apathy). You could argue that a revolution doesn't need to have stemmed from politics, but I also think a lot of working class people don't believe they can make any difference, which is one of the worse things.
    You're right about how things are right now, but that doesn't mean they won't change. The working-class are leaning towards becoming more politically active than before, and there's a lot of un-rest with our current political system.
    I don't mean it'll happen anytime soon, but it could do at some point, and I really hope it does.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    No. You clearly know nothing about becoming a doctor, so I suggest you don't tell me I'm wrong when you have no idea.
    What I (and someone else) has said is completely true. To become a doctor, aside from the money needed to get the qualifications, you certainly need experience behind you. This often means unpaid work, like internships. These places are limited and very competitive, which means that those people from better-off families have more chance because they can afford to work for free for a long time, and that those with family members in the business (who would be well-off too) are more likely to be offered a place.

    The same goes for professions like Welshbluebird mentioned.
    It goes for MOST of the higher paid professions... Hence my point.
    I know a few people who got into medicine and denistry and all they did was write to the hospital and then did two weeks work experiance in the summer holidays. Its hardly barrier to the poor is it.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    I know a few people who got into medicine and denistry and all they did was write to the hospital and then did two weeks work experiance in the summer holidays. Its hardly barrier to the poor is it.
    There are always some exceptions to the rule, but this is the general trend. It also depends what part of medicine.
    Dentisry is another thing all-together, not really comparable.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    But just because in some professions it is a little easier for people with contacts to get work experiance it doesn't mean all working class people are doomed to a life of poverty.
    There we go. You just admitted you were wrong. We were not debating about if it was possible. I already said that I agreed that it isn't impossible. All I was saying (and what you were disagreeing with) is that for a lot of the higher paid professions, it is more difficult for people from working class backgrounds. I'm glad you have now agreed with that.

    (Original post by Sternumator)
    I know a few people who got into medicine and denistry and all they did was write to the hospital and then did two weeks work experiance in the summer holidays. Its hardly barrier to the poor is it.
    They were certainly lucky.
    As I said, I don't know much about medicine, but from the professions I do know more about, getting experience off the back of a letter is not common at all.
    Especially in this economic climate.

    Plus, even if that was normal, surely you can see that it would be even easier if the persons parents were doctors anyway? They wouldn't even have had to write the letter. And my earlier comments about unpaid internships still apply, not really in medicine, but certainly in other fields.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Yeah... Right.

    Because America's system of leaving those who can't pay by the site of their accident/injury/attack is a model example of how the World should view other's in society.

    GTFO.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Has a teacher ever helped you cheat?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.