Turn on thread page Beta

Do you find 'relationships' a contrivance? watch

Announcements
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    To me, I've felt a lot of pressure to have one rather than just go with the flow. Generally I just hate how contrived the whole concept is, and how self-conscious,
    why can't we all jus be more liberated sexually and less rigidly monogomous and tied to this concept which, though seen as conventional, is actually quite formal, contrived and surprisingly unnatural socially. I know I've always been more confident with women when I could just relax and see them as a person, and there wasn't this silly, unrealistic pressure on 'a meningful relationship' making everything all self-conscious. It's bizzare how men and women never seem to really talk on a natural basis or be nvolved with one another, some women think any such man who is a freind is after something). It just goes to show how deluded we are, and how repressed we all still are, certainly in this country, I see a load of people who want it really but can't get it because of this aforementioned pressure, and have to act all cool like they don't want it, but peoples reactions to even casual interactions show that actually they are repressed, and want it more.
    Isn't it ridiculous? I think we all have a long way to go to social and sexual enlightment, maybe the French are closer to it.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    No, not if two people genuinely want that. Its only contrived if one of the parties is only involved in the relationship for other reasons, or half heartedly.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I don't really understand what it is with these sorts of debates and the word "natural", which seems to get thrown around a lot, seemingly with no basis. Monogamous relationships happen all the time in the animal kingdom, especially between birds, and it's a fairly effective strategy. Besides, the very design of the human female (i.e. a hidden menstrual cycle, so it's not apparent to the male where she is in her cycle) would suggest that long-term bonding and commitment between pairs is favourable, rather than sex just when she's "in season". Sex has evolved to have an ancillary function in humans (and a very few other species), so that rather than just being about copulation, it reinforces social bonds. I don't understand what's so "unnatural" about that. >_>
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Arnotts)
    No, not if two people genuinely want that. Its only contrived if one of the parties is only involved in the relationship for other reasons, or half heartedly.
    I know but most of the time, they don't as such.
    What should be happening is men and women meeting each other loads(maybe even haveing casual sex), and just doing a relationship naturally when they really like someone, but instead everyone is in this collective, defensive state, of being told how important(unrealistically so) a relationship is, and how 'meaningful' and other such crap, that just gives them unrealistic expectations, pressures them often into relationshops which are not right, and also seeing every interaction as something where the other person(and they might be)is really keen, and where they have to be all defensive and have the upper hand about who wants who. This seriousness about it betrays our collective repression and sense of being pressurised about it. The over emphasis, unrealistic emphasis on it, plus, caused by that, our lack of actually getting any naturally or just letting things emotionally flow, or indeeed just having healthy relaxed casual relations with the opposite sex in turn makes us feel more needy for it(though people collectively deny it)
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    I don't particularly think there is pressure if you don't want it. I met my boyfriend when I had given up on relationships and it happened so quickly and naturally.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Best Superlative)
    I don't really understand what it is with these sorts of debates and the word "natural", which seems to get thrown around a lot, seemingly with no basis. Monogamous relationships happen all the time in the animal kingdom, especially between birds, and it's a fairly effective strategy. Besides, the very design of the human female (i.e. a hidden menstrual cycle, so it's not apparent to the male where she is in her cycle) would suggest that long-term bonding and commitment between pairs is favourable, rather than sex just when she's "in season". Sex has evolved to have an ancillary function in humans (and a very few other species), so that rather than just being about copulation, it reinforces social bonds. I don't understand what's so "unnatural" about that. >_>
    Not so much inregards to monogamy, maybe that was a bad point by me. But nevertheless, the pressure on relationships does make people collectively insecure, I know that even the most casual interactions with women can make them think you want to marry them or something and they have to get defensive and reject you to claim the upper hand. That is a product of repression and overemphasis of the concept of a relationship. Everyione has to take it so heavy, like men and women are subdivided. It's all so repressive and jealous.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    I find it rather presumptuous that you think everyone agrees with you "secretly", or subconsciously. I don't want to have tons of casual sex, otherwise I would just do that and not have a relationship.

    And as for this ...

    "I know that even the most casual interactions with women can make them think you want to marry them or something and they have to get defensive and reject you to claim the upper hand."

    ... er, what? How often does that actually happen? I have "casual interactions" with men every day and they are just fine and dandy. It sounds like your social circles are a bit messed up ...
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jelkin)
    I find it rather presumptuous that you think everyone agrees with you "secretly", or subconsciously. I don't want to have tons of casual sex, otherwise I would just do that and not have a relationship.

    And as for this ...

    "I know that even the most casual interactions with women can make them think you want to marry them or something and they have to get defensive and reject you to claim the upper hand."

    ... er, what? How often does that actually happen? I have "casual interactions" with men every day and they are just fine and dandy. It sounds like your social circles are a bit messed up ...
    I don't. Maybe you're right about social circles though. I do think potentially relations between men and women could be very different though.
    Fair enough, but I just don;t see how anyone could not think, looking at our media culture, that 'serious relationships' were not a contrived concept and something people are unusually pressured about. If you don't think male female relations are repressed and self-conscious and effected by this cultural expectation, ok, but I must be seeing a different world to you.

    I mean, what is a 'serious relationship' anyway, when does it become gospel that you have to regard one female that much higher than ther rest of her brethrin? And what do you talk about more or do that you couldn't with anyone you like?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chillaxer)
    Not so much inregards to monogamy, maybe that was a bad point by me. But nevertheless, the pressure on relationships does make people collectively insecure, I know that even the most casual interactions with women can make them think you want to marry them or something and they have to get defensive and reject you to claim the upper hand. That is a product of repression and overemphasis of the concept of a relationship. Everyione has to take it so heavy, like men and women are subdivided. It's all so repressive and jealous.
    Ah, I think I may have partially misunderstood your point then, or at least misplaced its centre of gravity on the wrong issue. I don't know, I think I still disagree though. Bonding and commitment are two very important functions in relationships, and one could even argue that it's "natural" (although, like I said before, I hate using that word in debates) for humans to seek out a mate. Our attitudes towards relationships have been becoming increasing liberal though; it's perfectly acceptable for men and women to date and enjoy each other's company without the assumption of marriage, and it's far more socially acceptable for men and women to be friends now (if you'll excuse my Occidental bias). However, there's still that core in which men and women at least seem to be driven to form a pair, so I don't really find it surprising that even casual acquaintance between males and females gravitates towards that goal. I see no problem with it really, aside from the people you mentioned who tend to be overly clingy, but I would be more inclined to put them in a fringe group. I see nothing wrong with societal attitudes towards monogamous relationships - I still think they're very important, and the emphasis placed on them not really unjust.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Best Superlative)
    Ah, I think I may have partially misunderstood your point then, or at least misplaced its centre of gravity on the wrong issue. I don't know, I think I still disagree though. Bonding and commitment are two very important functions in relationships, and one could even argue that it's "natural" (although, like I said before, I hate using that word in debates) for humans to seek out a mate. Our attitudes towards relationships have been becoming increasing liberal though; it's perfectly acceptable for men and women to date and enjoy each other's company without the assumption of marriage, and it's far more socially acceptable for men and women to be friends now (if you'll excuse my Occidental bias). However, there's still that core in which men and women at least seem to be driven to form a pair, so I don't really find it surprising that even casual acquaintance between males and females gravitates towards that goal. I see no problem with it really, aside from the people you mentioned who tend to be overly clingy, but I would be more inclined to put them in a fringe group. I see nothing wrong with societal attitudes towards monogamous relationships - I still think they're very important, and the emphasis placed on them not really unjust.
    It's too much pressure. And as for how natural 'serious relationship' style monogamy is, I think that we see that in our westernised way, the Americans especially are hung up on it, having kids young, no sex before marriage etc. If you went to African societies, you would find absentee father or fathers to children from multiple women, with the women looking after those kids, is perfectly normal, as is men who are straight but just freinds being close enough to hold hands. I am morally relativist about such things. We have a myopic view based on our condtioning of what is normal..
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chillaxer)
    It's too much pressure. And as for how natural 'serious relationship' style monogamy is, I think that we see that in our westernised way, the Americans especially are hung up on it, having kids young, no sex before marriage etc. If you went to African societies, you would find absentee father or fathers to children from multiple women, with the women looking after those kids, is perfectly normal, as is men who are straight but just freinds being close enough to hold hands. I am morally relativist about such things. We have a myopic view based on our condtioning of what is normal..
    Perhaps it's useless to argue what's "natural" and what's "normal" then, since we could make that case from multiple points of view. Just because said tribes in Africa are less technologically advanced and live a more simple existence, doesn't mean that countless generations of strong cultural refinement has established their polygamous system.

    Do you think that monogamy and polygamy should both be equally respected in Western society then? Or just that we should stop focusing so much on relationships in general? If it's the latter point, I'm still inclined to disagree (in fact, I'd disagree on the former too, but with a far weaker argument), because I see those sort of relationships as fundamental to our society. Maybe that's just a belief that's been interpellated into me via representations of those relationships and their importance too. How exactly do you think there's too much pressure to have a relationship though? As in, what forces drive that exactly?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jelkin)
    I find it rather presumptuous that you think everyone agrees with you "secretly", or subconsciously. I don't want to have tons of casual sex, otherwise I would just do that and not have a relationship.

    ...
    It's more presumptuous for anybody in a relationship to just assume they are better and that you need to be told you can have it too.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Best Superlative)
    Perhaps it's useless to argue what's "natural" and what's "normal" then, since we could make that case from multiple points of view. Just because said tribes in Africa are less technologically advanced and live a more simple existence, doesn't mean that countless generations of strong cultural refinement has established their polygamous system.

    Do you think that monogamy and polygamy should both be equally respected in Western society then? Or just that we should stop focusing so much on relationships in general? If it's the latter point, I'm still inclined to disagree (in fact, I'd disagree on the former too, but with a far weaker argument), because I see those sort of relationships as fundamental to our society. Maybe that's just a belief that's been interpellated into me via representations of those relationships and their importance too. How exactly do you think there's too much pressure to have a relationship though? As in, what forces drive that exactly?
    That's a conservative viewpoint to me, akin to the Americans or to Thatcher's emphasis on the family. I think Labour and the Tories still differ in their respective emphasis on community and nuclear family. There's an interesting book called 'Free to be human' where he basically argues (much better than me so take a look if you get time)from memory, that we are politically disenfranchised, and there's not much social conscience, or belief we can change anything, we are atomized and alienated in our lives by the poltical, corporate systems, misanthropic and not beleiving in scoiety, and we retreat into an idealized, overhyped notion of romantic relationships as the only hope of redemption.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chillaxer)
    It's more presumptuous for anybody in a relationship to just assume they are better and that you need to be told you can have it too.
    Jelkin didn't actually say anything about being better.
    Different view =/= Feeling of superiority.

    Personally I don't have a problem with casual sex, but don't go picking on the monogamous just because you probably have your own hang-ups about it.
    If you don't want them yourself, fine, but most people (myself included) would prefer emotional attachment over casual sex.
    (I've tried it and it did nothing for me.)

    You can't be so black-and-white as to define everybody who wants "meaningful relationships" as conservative. I'm a bisexual who doesn't believe in marriage, and before I was actually in my current relationship I thought I didn't believe in them either.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rananagirl)
    Jelkin didn't actually say anything about being better.
    Different view =/= Feeling of superiority.

    Personally I don't have a problem with casual sex, but don't go picking on the monogamous just because you probably have your own hang-ups about it.
    If you don't want them yourself, fine, but most people (myself included) would prefer emotional attachment over casual sex.

    (I've tried it and it did nothing for me.)
    Didn't say she did, I was refrring generally.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    I think the point is that there needn't be a sharp divide between monogamy and casual sex, and possibly that men and women are too socially divided and tend to interact mostly on a sex basis. The emphasis on sex as a part of an exclusive conventionally romantic relationship *or* as casual is the problem.

    Is that it?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by littleshambles)
    I think the point is that there needn't be a sharp divide between monogamy and casual sex, and possibly that men and women are too socially divided and tend to interact mostly on a sex basis. The emphasis on sex as a part of an exclusive conventionally romantic relationship *or* as casual is the problem.

    Is that it?
    Yeah kind of. TA.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: March 19, 2011
Poll
Cats or dogs?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.