Do you agree with military action in Libya (poll included.
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The hypocrisy of it all stinks to high heavens, the only reason that the UN & Nato is even remotely interested in Libya is because it is right on Europe's border. Where were the no fly zones when Omar al-Bashir used war planes and militias to massacre refugees and rebels in Darfur? Where was the UN when Robert Mugabe's security forces killed and tortured opposition political supporters & white farmers? Why is the US and UN doing absolutely nothing with regards to Yemen where army snipers have opened fire on crowds of pro democracy campaigners? Why is nothing happening to Bahrain which also used lethal force to suppress anti-government protests, and then had the audacity to use military forces to occupy civilians hospitals in defiance of international law? Where is the no fly zone over North Korea a country far more guilty of crimes against its own population than Libya?
The UN is a hypocritical puppet organisation that only ever acts when it suits Western powers, Europe doesn't fancy having a civil war so close to it's borders so it has manipulated the UN to act.
It has nothing to do with protecting civilians, that the West even dares to mutter these words is an insult to the tens of thousands that have died past and present. If the West was interested in protecting civilians from oppressive regimes where is the action for the countries I have listed above? The Silence is deafening.
The UN is a hypocritical puppet organisation that only ever acts when it suits Western powers, Europe doesn't fancy having a civil war so close to it's borders so it has manipulated the UN to act.
It has nothing to do with protecting civilians, that the West even dares to mutter these words is an insult to the tens of thousands that have died past and present. If the West was interested in protecting civilians from oppressive regimes where is the action for the countries I have listed above? The Silence is deafening.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Brandmon
Note people, that the West would have had easy access to the oil if they simply supported Gaddafi. Remember when many foreign oil workers pulled out of Libya?
Also, the oil Libya provides is not at all significant. It could easily be replaced by either getting oil from the Saudis or relying on more Russian oil and gas.
Top Ten Oil Exporting Countries
* Saudi Arabia (8.73 million barrels per day)
* Russia (6.67)
* Norway (2.91)
* Iran (2.55)
* Venezuela (2.36)
* United Arab Emirates (2.33)
* Kuwait (2.20)
* Nigeria (2.19)
* Mexico (1.80)
* Algeria (1.68)
As you can see, the West would have profited more Oil-wise if it made an excuse to invade Algeria.
So knowing that the "We did it for the oil" is bull****, and the West has no interest to colonise Libya: Yes, I fully support this military action.
Also, the oil Libya provides is not at all significant. It could easily be replaced by either getting oil from the Saudis or relying on more Russian oil and gas.
Top Ten Oil Exporting Countries
* Saudi Arabia (8.73 million barrels per day)
* Russia (6.67)
* Norway (2.91)
* Iran (2.55)
* Venezuela (2.36)
* United Arab Emirates (2.33)
* Kuwait (2.20)
* Nigeria (2.19)
* Mexico (1.80)
* Algeria (1.68)
As you can see, the West would have profited more Oil-wise if it made an excuse to invade Algeria.
So knowing that the "We did it for the oil" is bull****, and the West has no interest to colonise Libya: Yes, I fully support this military action.
Or remove Gaddafi and have a massive input on the new regime and therefore more say on where the oil goes.
Original post by fire2burn
The hypocrisy of it all stinks to high heavens, the only reason that the UN & Nato is even remotely interested in Libya is because it is right on Europe's border. Where were the no fly zones when Omar al-Bashir used war planes and militias to massacre refugees and rebels in Darfur? Where was the UN when Robert Mugabe's security forces killed and tortured opposition political supporters & white farmers? Why is the US and UN doing absolutely nothing with regards to Yemen where army snipers have opened fire on crowds of pro democracy campaigners? Why is nothing happening to Bahrain which also used lethal force to suppress anti-government protests, and then had the audacity to use military forces to occupy civilians hospitals in defiance of international law? Where is the no fly zone over North Korea a country far more guilty of crimes against its own population than Libya?
The UN is a hypocritical puppet organisation that only ever acts when it suits Western powers, Europe doesn't fancy having a civil war so close to it's borders so it has manipulated the UN to act.
It has nothing to do with protecting civilians, that the West even dares to mutter these words is an insult to the tens of thousands that have died past and present. If the West was interested in protecting civilians from oppressive regimes where is the action for the countries I have listen above? The Silence is deafening.
The UN is a hypocritical puppet organisation that only ever acts when it suits Western powers, Europe doesn't fancy having a civil war so close to it's borders so it has manipulated the UN to act.
It has nothing to do with protecting civilians, that the West even dares to mutter these words is an insult to the tens of thousands that have died past and present. If the West was interested in protecting civilians from oppressive regimes where is the action for the countries I have listen above? The Silence is deafening.
This.
I agree with intervening, but there are some serious double standards involved.
Many innocent lives will be lost through the bombardment of airstikes too.
Original post by garethDT
Absolutely disagree.
This is a colonial war just like Iraq and Afghanistan.
This is a colonial war just like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Ok then, let's watch a dictator slaughter thousands of innocent civilians just so we can avoid being called colonialists by some random TSR user.
Original post by Tut.exe
"Tell the West to destroy Gaddafi slowly, piece by piece by piece, the way he did to us for 40 years," Jamal al-Majbouri, who owns a farm nearby said.
Words from a Libyan.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/03/20/uk-libya-east-devastation-idUKTRE72J1MH20110320?pageNumber=2
Bahrain and Yemen protestors are not revolting, there's war going on... And the last thing the US wants is its allies turn into enemies, especially that Saudi, one of their closest Ally in the Middle East.
The Rebels arent as mental as he is, the NTC is composed of opposition politicians, former military officers, tribal leaders, academics and businessmen. How is it crazy for a set of people asking for freedom from Gaddafi's regime then start being shot and defended itself?
It's always its nothing to do with us. Well if somebody was getting stabbed infront of you and what little they have is taken away from them, would you just say it's nothing to do with you? You wouldnt say that if you're the one being attacked. coward.
Words from a Libyan.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/03/20/uk-libya-east-devastation-idUKTRE72J1MH20110320?pageNumber=2
Bahrain and Yemen protestors are not revolting, there's war going on... And the last thing the US wants is its allies turn into enemies, especially that Saudi, one of their closest Ally in the Middle East.
The Rebels arent as mental as he is, the NTC is composed of opposition politicians, former military officers, tribal leaders, academics and businessmen. How is it crazy for a set of people asking for freedom from Gaddafi's regime then start being shot and defended itself?
It's always its nothing to do with us. Well if somebody was getting stabbed infront of you and what little they have is taken away from them, would you just say it's nothing to do with you? You wouldnt say that if you're the one being attacked. coward.
Yes, if someone was being stabbed in front of me I wouldn't jump in and help them because I'm not moronic and have some idea of self-preservation.
Why is everyone suddenly thinking the West are "heroes" again? Has everyone forgot what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan? We were told there were "weapons of mass destruction" and all this other bull**** but look how many innocent people got killed in the end.
It's funny how the media are able to dictate everyone's feelings so well, people need to wake up and realise how full of **** BBC/sky news etc really are.
It may well be that Gaddafi is an idiot but who are the west to solve this? If we wanna talk about getting rid of "terrorists" or "oppressors" then go execute Tony Blair and George Bush frst.
And as for the oil debate, who's not to say Libya is just a starting point and part of the Western strategy to work their way upwards into the more oil-rich country.
Please people, this is not an attempt to save the innocent people the way the West/media are putting it across. It's simply another attack on a Muslim country and I'm prepared to say many innocent people will die "accidentally".
watch this space.
It's funny how the media are able to dictate everyone's feelings so well, people need to wake up and realise how full of **** BBC/sky news etc really are.
It may well be that Gaddafi is an idiot but who are the west to solve this? If we wanna talk about getting rid of "terrorists" or "oppressors" then go execute Tony Blair and George Bush frst.
And as for the oil debate, who's not to say Libya is just a starting point and part of the Western strategy to work their way upwards into the more oil-rich country.
Please people, this is not an attempt to save the innocent people the way the West/media are putting it across. It's simply another attack on a Muslim country and I'm prepared to say many innocent people will die "accidentally".
watch this space.
Original post by imperial maniac
Yes, if someone was being stabbed in front of me I wouldn't jump in and help them because I'm not moronic and have some idea of self-preservation.
Hahaha now you're a hypocrite. You attack the American Government in its attempt for self-interest and self-preservation and you tell me that you wouldnt help anyone as long as you live.
This is not a case of self-preservation, the West is well capable of stopping this thief of stabbing his own people.
idiot.
Original post by meenu89
Yes, yet another policy area in which I agree with David Cameron. Like the way he led on this.
Original post by Retrodiction
Ok then, let's watch a dictator slaughter thousands of innocent civilians just so we can avoid being called colonialists by some random TSR user.
Except he isn't slaughtering thousands of innocent civilians, that's just propaganda. There is absolutely no evidence of this.
And you can't call the rebels innocent civilians when they're carrying guns and in uniform, they are a military organisation and Libya, like any other country, has the right to defend itself.
Original post by fire2burn
The hypocrisy of it all stinks to high heavens, the only reason that the UN & Nato is even remotely interested in Libya is because it is right on Europe's border. Where were the no fly zones when Omar al-Bashir used war planes and militias to massacre refugees and rebels in Darfur? Where was the UN when Robert Mugabe's security forces killed and tortured opposition political supporters & white farmers? Why is the US and UN doing absolutely nothing with regards to Yemen where army snipers have opened fire on crowds of pro democracy campaigners? Why is nothing happening to Bahrain which also used lethal force to suppress anti-government protests, and then had the audacity to use military forces to occupy civilians hospitals in defiance of international law? Where is the no fly zone over North Korea a country far more guilty of crimes against its own population than Libya?
The UN is a hypocritical puppet organisation that only ever acts when it suits Western powers, Europe doesn't fancy having a civil war so close to it's borders so it has manipulated the UN to act.
It has nothing to do with protecting civilians, that the West even dares to mutter these words is an insult to the tens of thousands that have died past and present. If the West was interested in protecting civilians from oppressive regimes where is the action for the countries I have listed above? The Silence is deafening.
The UN is a hypocritical puppet organisation that only ever acts when it suits Western powers, Europe doesn't fancy having a civil war so close to it's borders so it has manipulated the UN to act.
It has nothing to do with protecting civilians, that the West even dares to mutter these words is an insult to the tens of thousands that have died past and present. If the West was interested in protecting civilians from oppressive regimes where is the action for the countries I have listed above? The Silence is deafening.
A normal human being! I am amazed!
Original post by garethDT
Except he isn't slaughtering thousands of innocent civilians, that's just propaganda. There is absolutely no evidence of this.
And you can't call the rebels innocent civilians when they're carrying guns and in uniform, they are a military organisation and Libya, like any other country, has the right to defend itself.
And you can't call the rebels innocent civilians when they're carrying guns and in uniform, they are a military organisation and Libya, like any other country, has the right to defend itself.
Yes, because Gaddafi is just sitting by watching peacefully while rebels take over towns and cities and attempt to topple his rule. The rebels are fighting for democracy and they're losing. You can be willing to sit back and watch as the most successful attempt at obtaining democracy is squashed by a murderous power-hungry madman if you want, but if I were you I would be seriously questioning my political and moral compass.
(edited 13 years ago)
I know what military hardware is being used, and I think you'll be pretty ignorant to think that innocent people won't die as a result of the recent UN intervention. I've not said whether I agree or disagree with the intervention itself, although I am sceptical about the actual reasoning of getting involved.
Original post by Retrodiction
Yes, because Gaddafi is just sitting by watching peacefully while rebels take over towns and cities and attempt to topple his rule. The rebels are fighting for democracy and they're losing. If you're willing to sit back and watch as the most successful attempt at obtaining democracy is squashed by a murderous power-hungry madman if you want, but if I were you I would be seriously questioning my political and moral compass.
The armed rebels are flying the flag of the old monarchy and carrying pictures of the old King Idris so you can cut the democracy crap.
And if you are such a big fan of democracy then you would just have to accept that the majority of Libyans are content with Gadaffi's leadership and as democracy says, the majority is always right.
Original post by fire2burn
The hypocrisy of it all stinks to high heavens, the only reason that the UN & Nato is even remotely interested in Libya is because it is right on Europe's border. Where were the no fly zones when Omar al-Bashir used war planes and militias to massacre refugees and rebels in Darfur? Where was the UN when Robert Mugabe's security forces killed and tortured opposition political supporters & white farmers? Why is the US and UN doing absolutely nothing with regards to Yemen where army snipers have opened fire on crowds of pro democracy campaigners? Why is nothing happening to Bahrain which also used lethal force to suppress anti-government protests, and then had the audacity to use military forces to occupy civilians hospitals in defiance of international law? Where is the no fly zone over North Korea a country far more guilty of crimes against its own population than Libya?
The UN is a hypocritical puppet organisation that only ever acts when it suits Western powers, Europe doesn't fancy having a civil war so close to it's borders so it has manipulated the UN to act.
It has nothing to do with protecting civilians, that the West even dares to mutter these words is an insult to the tens of thousands that have died past and present. If the West was interested in protecting civilians from oppressive regimes where is the action for the countries I have listed above? The Silence is deafening.
The UN is a hypocritical puppet organisation that only ever acts when it suits Western powers, Europe doesn't fancy having a civil war so close to it's borders so it has manipulated the UN to act.
It has nothing to do with protecting civilians, that the West even dares to mutter these words is an insult to the tens of thousands that have died past and present. If the West was interested in protecting civilians from oppressive regimes where is the action for the countries I have listed above? The Silence is deafening.
Original post by scriggy
This.
I agree with intervening, but there are some serious double standards involved.
I agree with intervening, but there are some serious double standards involved.
Original post by morris743
A normal human being! I am amazed!
If you look at why the war stopped in North Korea, it's because the Chinese assisted them and to fight for it would cost to unify the two states. China would see it as a capitalist invasion and could end up another costly war. The people of North Korea does not seem to act against its government so the UN dont really have grounds to complain about.
People need to know that politics isn't that straight forward. To intervene costs, with a person having only two arms he cant really catch everyone thats falling. They'd have to simply choose which ones they deem is best helped.
Those that you mention, you need to research about them before putting them on topic. They're not all that easy. I hate writing essays, when you have google.
Sending troops to locations, and them dying on those locations costs the government who sent those security forces. The families would complain as to why did they send to a foreign country "thats nothing to do with them".
The west has already been seen as "colonialists" whenever they try to say or act against a regime.
Yemen and Bahrain have been an Ally to the US, one thing the US doesn't want is their only few allies in the middle east to end up in their enemies. Let alone, Bahrain has close ties with Saudi. Moreover, they have already been warned by the UNHCR that they will investigate soon enough on the guilty. They cant just intervene when no one asked them too. As far as I'm concerned the Yemeni, and Bahraini protesters didn't complain to the UN.
Also, it's unfair to compare Gaddafi's 40 year regime over Yemen, and Bahrain.
The UNHCR cannot dictate to every member state that abuses human rights. It's not that simple. You guys keep complaining as if it's easy to condemn someone and put him to prison just like that.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by garethDT
The armed rebels are flying the flag of the old monarchy and carrying pictures of the old King Idris so you can cut the democracy crap.
And if you are such a big fan of democracy then you would just have to accept that the majority of Libyans are content with Gadaffi's leadership and as democracy says, the majority is always right.
And if you are such a big fan of democracy then you would just have to accept that the majority of Libyans are content with Gadaffi's leadership and as democracy says, the majority is always right.
And I suppose that's why the entire country bar Tripoli and Sirte was taken over by a minority of rebels at one point?
Foo'
Quote the exact words where I said that. Oh wait you wont be able to because you just made it up
I said the hypocrisy stinks. The UN and Nato only ever act when it suits them and they stand to gain something, in this case the supression of a civil war on Europe's borders and the removal of a man that has run circles around the West for the past 40 years. It has nothing what so ever to do with human rights and protecting civilians. So don't even try to insinuate that they care. If the West cared even one iota about protecting civilian protesters from oppressive regimes they're ban all arms sales to Yemen and Bahrain with immediate effect. And yet they're not even willing to take this most basic of steps. They're more than happy to allow Yemeni army snipers to gun down unarmed protesters. They're more than happy to allow Bahrain' security forces to clear the streets with indiscriminate live fire. And they're more than happy to continue supplying arms shipments to them.
Wake up kid, and smell the coffee.
I said the hypocrisy stinks. The UN and Nato only ever act when it suits them and they stand to gain something, in this case the supression of a civil war on Europe's borders and the removal of a man that has run circles around the West for the past 40 years. It has nothing what so ever to do with human rights and protecting civilians. So don't even try to insinuate that they care. If the West cared even one iota about protecting civilian protesters from oppressive regimes they're ban all arms sales to Yemen and Bahrain with immediate effect. And yet they're not even willing to take this most basic of steps. They're more than happy to allow Yemeni army snipers to gun down unarmed protesters. They're more than happy to allow Bahrain' security forces to clear the streets with indiscriminate live fire. And they're more than happy to continue supplying arms shipments to them.
Wake up kid, and smell the coffee.
(edited 13 years ago)
I agree about the air strikes and no fly zone.....not sure about land troops.....Taliban statement just came out..........this puts the shiver down my spine.............seriously guys.......i hope and pray libya doesn't go the Iraq way........I hope there is a ceasefire or something and the matter isn't allowed to get out of hand..................the last thing we need is one more country racked by fundamentalism......
i disagree with it. this can turn into another Afghan/Iraq so easily. Americans and their allies can kill more people than Qadhaffi did in his life time....in just one yr.
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