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    Wow, OP. Maybe you're right. Maybe all of those refugees fleeing from Benghazi this morning were just up for a day's hiking? Perhaps all of those who've seen their relatives deliberately bombed by Gaddafi's jets are in league with this wacky conspiracy too? The people calling into news stations across the world from Tripoli, describing the mood and fear of the deranged Gaddafi's next move, are agents provocateurs? Anything to try and seem politically-smart, huh? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Subcutaneous)
    So it's better to sit and watch the unnecessary deaths of the country's own government which would be DIRECTED to civilians
    (Original post by Aj12)
    Yeah lets sit back and watch people being shot bombed and massacred.
    i don't believe it is our place to get involved. we've already made stupid decisions when it comes to Libya (Blair being a hypocrite...) so now we're surprised that they're going crazy with the **** that we sold them.
    we're all friendly when it benefits us and not when it doesn't. wading in and killing them won't help. it's not our place and we shouldn't be there.
    i will not support our evolvement in this because sometimes countries need to sort themselves out...

    people are being killed all over the world. we can't go in everywhere!!
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    (Original post by robin22391)
    Libya another country with oil.

    since when does a no-fly zone involve destroying tanks?

    where is the evidence of the apparent massacres of unarmed civilians, where are the videos of libyan bombs dropped from jets killing people, why did i only find out today than the rebels also have jets, where are all the pictures of the government jets,why is the news so biased, why did france recognise basically the libyan version of the ira as a government,where is all the journalistic evidence???.

    And why did the SAS land in a mi6 agents back garden in a helicopter dressed in black with a bag full of explosives and then claim that it was a diplomatic mission when they were captured?


    Also why all the focus on libya, what about all the other countries like bahrain and saudi arabia.

    This is clearly a plan to take out libya no matter the cost in lives, while they still can.
    Oh for ****s sake...

    We got another live one here
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    (Original post by don'tyouremember?)
    i don't believe it is our place to get involved. we've already made stupid decisions when it comes to Libya (Blair being a hypocrite...) so now we're surprised that they're going crazy with the **** that we sold them.
    we're all friendly when it benefits us and not when it doesn't. wading in and killing them won't help. it's not our place and we shouldn't be there.
    i will not support our evolvement in this because sometimes countries need to sort themselves out...

    people are being killed all over the world. we can't go in everywhere!!
    But here we have a chance to stop a genicide

    So in your opinoin you would happily sit back and watch the holocaust?
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    (Original post by robin22391)
    this is not an argument, i watched the news, flicking between bbc and russiatoday for about 3 hours and i am disgusted at the reporting of the bbc, at least the russians try to keep a non biased view
    BBC is biased, russian media isn't.

    I lol'd
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    But here we have a chance to stop a genicide

    So in your opinoin you would happily sit back and watch the holocaust?
    I also think the OP is lacking in brains, but the war in Libya is hardly genocide.

    Hyperbole ftw
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    Anyone who doesn't support a no-fly zone (at the very least) is arguing for allowing Gadaffi to massacre his own people. Stop with your incessant conspiracy theories and face up to the reality of the situation.
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    (Original post by robin22391)
    im not a conspiracy theorist, what a ridiculous use of words btw. I am a truth'er, i believe in the truth. it angers me to see lies and i want evidence of things that are presented to me that may be false.

    i have never said that those pilots never had those orders, but they did not actually do it did they, and that they are all supposedly french....

    most of these bombings have not been verified and these media outlets stressed that.
    Just because you think they are lies doesn't make it so. And when evidence is presented, you automatically dismiss it, thus making you a prize idiot.

    Yes, they defected rather than bomb their own people. Sadly, some of their colleagues were not so enlightened. Those bombings happened and were also reported. Find them yourself. Further, if *you* took the time to read the articles you'd realise that when they refer to anything 'French' they mean the aircraft, being made by Dassualt in France and sold to Libya 20yrs ago.
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    (Original post by HJV)
    We were getting the oil anyway, and had peace been restored by Gaddafi the oil lines would be up and running quicker than they will be now that there's a war going on out there.

    Therefore, moot point.



    Have you actually read the resolution? Nowhere does it say action is limited to policing a no fly zone through figher jets.



    Probably held by the reporters currently imprisoned and/or killed and/or tortured by Gaddafi.



    Because the costs are too high for intervening there.


    controlling oil resources and strategic zones is an important aim for the west therefore not a moot point.

    the resolution was pushed to have that ability included at the last minute for legal reasons by the usa who didnt want claims of illegality, what it does is basically declares war on libya.

    you say probably well thats just spurious and not good enough


    so you are putting a value on these thousands of lives, i hear around 200000 people have meen murdered in the congo by rebels supplied by britain and france from rwanda.

    so dont give me this rubbish, it is a disgrace that they attack libya while spewing propaganda and use the good opportunity of a civil war to take out a leader who they dislike, what about all those leaders like in bahrain and saudi, why not blow up their tanks, which they use on their people.
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    (Original post by yituool)
    I also think the OP is lacking in brains, but the war in Libya is hardly genocide.

    Hyperbole ftw
    Well Gadaffi did say he was going kill every single person who dared oppose him and clear the rebels out house by house.

    But hey I am getting bored of arguing with the idiots on here (not you) and its 20 past 2 in the morning so I think I am allowed?
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    (Original post by Nick Longjohnson)
    At least with Iraq the Americans had the decency of putting forward a bull**** case. We can't even get an elaborate lie these days.


    The UN is pointless.
    Oh please enlighten me, what is the secret agenda this time?
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    But here we have a chance to stop a genicide

    So in your opinoin you would happily sit back and watch the holocaust?
    Which racial or cultural group specifically is going to be targeted by Gaddafi? This is a genuine question because people are banding about the world 'genocide' all over the place, which I take to mean the systematic killing of a racial, religious, or cultural group, and it seems he is targeting pretty much anyone who opposes him.
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    (Original post by don'tyouremember?)
    not another iraq... but we shouldn't be getting involved.
    britain trying to police the world again. it won't work. we'll end up with unnecessary deaths. great.
    Yeah, because there will be far less deaths if we let Gaddafi continue the massacring of civilians
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Well Gadaffi did say he was going kill every single person who dared oppose him and clear the rebels out house by house.

    But hey I am getting bored of arguing with the idiots on here (not you) and its 20 past 2 in the morning so I think I am allowed?
    That's not what genocide is.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Which racial or cultural group specifically is going to be targeted by Gaddafi? This is a genuine question because people are banding about the world 'genocide' all over the place, which I take to mean the systematic killing of a racial, religious, or cultural group, and it seems he is targeting pretty much anyone who opposes him.
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...t-qaddafi.html

    Lets say what this guy says is true.

    Libya is a very tribal society. At least 1 or 2 have come out and opposed him. Its pretty likely he will wipe them out.

    Or how about Gadaffi's threat to kill every rebel (which he could define as every person in the east of the country). I imagine that could be a genicide or at last a petty brutal massacre
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    (Original post by robin22391)
    was that verified?

    i doubt they would get jets to fire on unarmed protestors, they can barely get a plane off the ground without it blowing up.

    gadaffi may be crazy and he may order terrible things but did the paratroopers not kill 14 brittish protestors in the 70s, i am complaining about the lies the governments like the uk and france usa etc spout just so they can invade places or change dictators.
    FOR THE LAST TIME IT IS NOT A ****ING INVASION. Does anybody actually read the ****ing news?
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    (Original post by yituool)
    That's not what genocide is.
    Massacre then. Unless he decides he wants to wipe out 1 or two of the tribes opposing him
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Just because you think they are lies doesn't make it so. And when evidence is presented, you automatically dismiss it, thus making you a prize idiot.

    Yes, they defected rather than bomb their own people. Sadly, some of their colleagues were not so enlightened. Those bombings happened and were also reported. Find them yourself. Further, if *you* took the time to read the articles you'd realise that when they refer to anything 'French' they mean the aircraft, being made by Dassualt in France and sold to Libya 20yrs ago.

    look drewski can you have a civil argument.

    those pilots were french citizens apparently.

    those reports of bombings have not been verified according to the media

    i have not dismissed any evidence, and i do consider each report, if what you gave me is evidence then that is good, i would not put it past any government to kill people after all we just sent in over 100 missiles which have killed people. the point of the thread was to see views from people like you, nonetheless the propaganda is what i am angry about.

    for example the sas were on a diplomatic mission which somehow involved c4 and guns.
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    (Original post by robin22391)
    controlling oil resources and strategic zones is an important aim for the west therefore not a moot point.
    I believe the main motivation for France (who appears to be leading the intervention) is to not have 200 000 refugees knocking on their door. The 200 000 would not be able to return to Libya as far as Gaddafi is in power because they'd be whipped up to bits.

    As I said, the oil resources would have been much better secured by being friendly to Gaddafi.

    (Original post by robin22391)
    the resolution was pushed to have that ability included at the last minute for legal reasons by the usa who didnt want claims of illegality, what it does is basically declares war on libya.
    So what's the problem with a wide mandate? You'd prefer another Srebrenica where we watch by when thousands are shot to pieces within a few days.

    (Original post by robin22391)
    so you are putting a value on these thousands of lives, i hear around 200000 people have meen murdered in the congo by rebels supplied by britain and france from rwanda.
    There have been numerous missions to DR Congo, one is currently ongoing. They have not been succesful at stabilising it, but their mere existence disproves your point here.

    (Original post by robin22391)
    so dont give me this rubbish, it is a disgrace that they attack libya while spewing propaganda and use the good opportunity of a civil war to take out a leader who they dislike, what about all those leaders like in bahrain and saudi, why not blow up their tanks, which they use on their people.
    Because you're unlikely to have boatfuls of Saudis coming in to Malta, who we can't return home where they'd be killed.
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    (Original post by robin22391)
    if you save libya you must save every country and all of arabia and the ME including saudi arabia from its dictators.
    I wasn't aware international law dictates this.
 
 
 
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