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    (Original post by EssexDan86)
    Interested to see what you say next to justify a totalitarian regime bombarding its own people.

    Will it be the old 'Arabs don't do democracy' chestnut, or are you sticking to the 'this is all an neo-imperialist and I don't care how shady the regime is as long as it sticks two fingers up at the West' approach for the time being?
    I haven't justified the killing of civilians in any post.

    In an ideal world, there would be no dictators but I'm not going to get swept up in this self-righteous PR campaign about how we're the heroes going in to save Libyan civilians kidding myself Cameron and co actually give a crap.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    I haven't justified the killing of civilians in any post.

    In an ideal world, there would be no dictators but I'm not going to get swept up in this self-righteous PR campaign about how we're the heroes going in to save Libyan civilians kidding myself Cameron and co actually give a crap.
    I see what you mean, but there's no black and white in this world - everyone has to do things they'd rather not in the hope it works out down the line.
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    I fail to see why the West think the rebels we are helping are going to be any better. Just a ticking time bomb for another Saddam Hussain - arming the rebels.
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    Cartoon, 23 Mar 2011: George Osborne says military operation in Libya will cost 'tens of millions and not hundred of millions'

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    The West are hypocrites.

    Has history not painted anything more clearly?

    (To be fair - so are many non-Western nations, but that is besides the point here. The comparison is not a relative one).
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    (Original post by DJkG.1)
    The West are hypocrites.

    Has history not painted anything more clearly?

    (To be fair - so are many non-Western nations, but that is besides the point here. The comparison is not a relative one).
    :ditto:
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    Do you know what is really annoying pretty much everyone in this thread, is the fact that you refuse to look at both sides read evidence given and form an intelligent opinion on it to create a constructive agruement.
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    (Original post by Jabbo12)
    The intervention of the world in libya is definitely without a doubt heavily influenced by oil. There was a post that said the world cares about its brothers; I laughed so hard in pity for that poor person's naiveity. True it must be done, and I support the attack on libya. There's a video where in February the mercenaries burst into hundreds of homes in benghazi and killed everybody in each house. Another of a baby being killed by the people from other African countries killing a baby, a toddler and a 10 year old boy, all because they get 500 pounds per libyan killed. But people are still being killed for no reason in Yemen and Bahrain, but nothing is being done, not even a mention by Obama or Cameron, trying to avoid the issue. I sense another Rwanda on our hands in these two countries. And on top of it, the royal f'ing family invite the 'King' of Bahrain to their wedding, a murderer, and not even Obama. I also read that part of the libyan army who didn't want to kill a libyan was executed. Who is this person who kills his people? His army? Look at what happened to Saddam Hussein who did even less than this. Hanged. So what is going to happen to Gaddafi?
    not a rwanda, i would bet my hand on that.

    but the situation in middle east mirrors libya, with the difference being that libya is our longterm enemy. and many of these other countries are important strategic allies.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4CQ_1GWn4w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33H...ABB7888F53C515

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilHsmea4P5E
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    (Original post by callum9999)
    1. How has Iraq resulted in America being better off oil-wise? It's often quoted as a reason, but these wars are making the price shoot up (making America worse off) and costs billions (trillions?) of dollars (making America worse off). I really don't understand how these are all helping oil supply? It would be far easier to just make a deal with the dictator.

    2. In the hospitals? Eyewitness accounts? Pleas for help? It's pretty hard to verify when Gadaffi refuses to let journalists in, and those who can are effectively under house arrest in their hotel rooms until Gadaffi has something he wants them to see.

    3. No idea.

    4. The Libyan action has broad international - and crucially regional support, plus a weak army. If we invaded Bahrain or Saudi Arabia it would be a major war - possibly WW3.

    the reasons why they invade countries for oil, or ally with dictators with oil, is complicated if you have not read up on it. generally it is a strategic geo-political manouvere planning for 40 years in the future. The price of oil at the moment is not important. just as in chess, the best player plans for 40 or so moves in the future.

    look at 5.30 mins into this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilHsmea4P5E

    Facts, are what is needed. not rubbish excitable reporting.
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    (Original post by robin22391)
    the reasons why they invade countries for oil, or ally with dictators with oil, is complicated if you have not read up on it. generally it is a strategic geo-political manouvere planning for 40 years in the future. The price of oil at the moment is not important. just as in chess, the best player plans for 40 or so moves in the future.

    look at 5.30 mins into this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilHsmea4P5E

    Facts, are what is needed. not rubbish excitable reporting.
    Russia Today? You go to Russia Today for neutral facts? I'd rather go to Hitler for an honest opinoin on Jews.
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    This is nothing like Iraq.

    People need to stop looking for reasons to moan.

    At end of the day, the vast magority of the Libyan people would be happy if 200 civlilans died over night if they killed Gadaffi.

    Then this could be over, much quicker.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Russia Today? You go to Russia Today for neutral facts? I'd rather go to Hitler for an honest opinoin on Jews.
    That old chestnut. I suppose you get your news from the completely unbiased and objective BBC:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ts-reveal.html

    How come all of this weaponry was authorised to go to Gaddafi in 2009?

    Had we not worked out in the past 40 years what he was like? Did we think he was going to use this weaponry for peace-keeping missions?
    They've got to get weapon's from somewhere. Look at the Argies in the Falklands. French jets, French provided exocet missiles that sank two of our ship's. Hell even the Belgrano was an old American Battleship.
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    (Original post by No Man)
    Ok, for all of the people with 'we're only doing it for the oil' ideas, this should put it into perspective.



    We'd be better off going against Iran if our intentions were for oil.
    I'm sure we would. But Iran is a totally different issue. I'm pretty sure if there were rebel forces with access to tanks/guns/aircraft then you'd see a reaction from the west just like the one in Libya. You can't achieve much with a no-fly zone for oil, but if you have a somewhat strong rebel force in that country which could topple a leader, then maybe, just maybe its best you try and act as a friend to that rebel organisation.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    That old chestnut. I suppose you get your news from the completely unbiased and objective BBC:rolleyes:
    The BBC Sky the Times the Economist Al Jezeera and a few other places.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    The BBC Sky the Times the Economist Al Jezeera and a few other places.
    You seem to be a huge fan of this war and rabidly put down posters who are suspicious of participants' motives. Do you have a dog in this fight that we don't know about?

    I'm aware of the stats on oil and all that means to me is "yes they have oil." If we could kill off Gadaffi and replace him with some pro-western lapdog, we would have better access to the oil. You would do well to remember it was Gadaffi who stood up to the greedy oil companies and made Libya the first Arab/North African country to get a decent price for its oil. The money went to the people, unlike the crooks who he deposed (in a bloodless coup by the way).

    The US would be bombing anyway, regardless of the UN and at the end of the day we are killing Libyans. We have no right to do that, no mandate and no moral justification that we can prove we have applied equally elsewhere (like israel).
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    (Original post by CODKING)
    You seem to be a huge fan of this war and rabidly put down posters who are suspicious of participants' motives. Do you have a dog in this fight that we don't know about?

    I'm aware of the stats on oil and all that means to me is "yes they have oil." If we could kill off Gadaffi and replace him with some pro-western lapdog, we would have better access to the oil. You would do well to remember it was Gadaffi who stood up to the greedy oil companies and made Libya the first Arab/North African country to get a decent price for its oil. The money went to the people, unlike the crooks who he deposed (in a bloodless coup by the way).

    The US would be bombing anyway, regardless of the UN and at the end of the day we are killing Libyans. We have no right to do that, no mandate and no moral justification that we can prove we have applied equally elsewhere (like israel).
    Yeah I really own shell. It was me that told the government to intervene so I could lose all my oil contracts.

    The money went to the people? Hardly. Most of the towns near the oil fields and many of the oil towns were in a complete state. Hence some of the anger at Gadaffi that lead to protests in the first place.

    The US would not be bombing. Obama came out loads of times and said We will not go in unless the UN allows it.

    We do have a right to. Gadaffi has been using jets the army and all sorts to put down protests and then when the rebellion kicked off threatened to kill every "rebel" in Benghazi.

    Israel despite what many think on this forum does not bomb for the lulz as I keep having to say. Most of their air strikes are in retaliation to terrorist attacks/rocket attacks. From a group that refuses to even recognize the country they are bombing.
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    (Original post by CODKING)
    The US would be bombing anyway, regardless of the UN and at the end of the day we are killing Libyans. We have no right to do that, no mandate and no moral justification that we can prove we have applied equally elsewhere (like israel).
    No mandate? The UN voted in Resolution 1973, so there is a mandate by the international community to respond.

    Aside from stopping a genocide to where a leader of a country has stated that he would go house to house to kill people against his regime, and we are trying to stop it, where is there no moral justification?
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Russia Today? You go to Russia Today for neutral facts? I'd rather go to Hitler for an honest opinoin on Jews.
    you have not even watched it have you, you dont watch rt.

    i watch all the news channels including presstv, aside from fox.

    it just so happens that that man in thevideo gets it spot on, the bbc, sky etc are the ones who are doing the bad reporting. they enjoy whipping it up, they did it with blair and brown, they do it with palestine and now libya.
 
 
 
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