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Top-Up Fees Bill Passed. watch

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    (Original post by Tek)
    Yeah, but so what if the course is expensive? Society benefits from Doctors, so society should pay for them to get qualified.
    Maybe doctors and nurses should get extra grants like teachers do in post grad training.

    For the rest, degrees such as sociology, media studies and history are doing nothing to directly help the country. If you want to do them, you have to pay. Simple as that.

    From my perspective, I will be better off because of the grant coming in. I wont be around for the top-up fees anyway. I think its great!

    However, I think working class students will end up better off than middle class, or lower middle class ones. This is something that needs to be addressed. I think the best solution would be to raise student loans to about 5000 or 6000 a year, so that if you need it, you can have it. Paying after graduation is no problem to me. Hopefully as a law grad ill earn much more with a degree than without it, so the issue of 'being put off uni' is not really evident.
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    (Original post by *dave*)
    For the rest, degrees such as sociology, media studies and history are doing nothing to directly help the country. If you want to do them, you have to pay. Simple as that.
    Um, why? Any graduate with a decent degree - especially history - will contribute towards the economy much more than a non graduate and will also be taxed more. So they still benefit society, don't they?
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    (Original post by Daveo)
    present fees! 1125

    new fees 3000

    grant 1500
    bursary 300
    3000 - 1500 - 300 = 1200

    You will now have to pay £75 more to goto uni! Even though you dont pay till you graduate.
    its worse than that.

    only THE POOR STUDENTS WHOSE PARENTS ARE ON BENEFIT OR NEAR THAT get those reductions etc.

    e.g.) the £300 bursary, the £1500 grant are for the poorer people.

    the rest of you pay the £3000, no grants, reductions etc.
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    (Original post by thefish_uk)
    Maybe. There are intelligent people, but there's also people like bono.

    I try not to be nasty but when people say stuff like that it's kinda one-sided, which I do have a problem with.
    but this sort of influence is enough to distort the votes.

    why should society have to pay for someones education to degree level? so what a doctor can help society; it is still the most expensive course in uni, using some of the most advanced technology. what happens if a graduated medic moves to france? should they have to foot a bit of the bill too?
    no! BUT at all times will the education be of benefit to the student. so why shouldnt they have to pay?!

    furthermore, by introducing these topup fees, people will be forced to choose degrees that are of some use; they wont be able to just go to uni for the fun of it.
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    (Original post by kikzen)
    but this sort of influence is enough to distort the votes.

    why should society have to pay for someones education to degree level? so what a doctor can help society; it is still the most expensive course in uni, using some of the most advanced technology. what happens if a graduated medic moves to france? should they have to foot a bit of the bill too?
    no! BUT at all times will the education be of benefit to the student. so why shouldnt they have to pay?!

    furthermore, by introducing these topup fees, people will be forced to choose degrees that are of some use; they wont be able to just go to uni for the fun of it.
    I'm a medic and after todays fiasco as soon as i qualify i'm goin to another country! i don't intend to offer the government an ounce of my service.
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    (Original post by Daveo)
    present fees! 1125

    new fees 3000

    grant 1500
    bursary 300
    3000 - 1500 - 300 = 1200

    You will now have to pay £75 more to goto uni! Even though you dont pay till you graduate.
    He wouldn't have paid any of the current fees, so he pays £1200 extra per annum.
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    So when do top up fees come into effect? And if we start uni under the old scheme will we have to pay for the new scheme when it comes into effect?
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    HELLLO???????????????

    IS THERE ANYBODY WHO ACTUALLY READS THINGS TO UNDERSTAND STUFF?

    its worse than that.

    "only THE POOR STUDENTS WHOSE PARENTS ARE ON BENEFIT OR NEAR THAT get those reductions etc.

    e.g.) the £300 bursary, the £1500 grant are for the poorer people.

    the rest of you pay the £3000, no grants, reductions etc."

    jesus flippin christ.

    its only the poor people like me who dont get it bad - i get £1500 grant at start + another £1000 grant for living + £1200 reduction on first year fee + £300 bursary.

    unless you are poor, you GET ZILCH. DIDDLY SQUAT. ZERO. JACK ALL.

    there, now please read before thinking "ohhh, i am guaranteed to only pay £75 extra, and at the end aswell, so its good."

    IT ISNT. YOU WILL PROBABLY BE PAYING £2500-3000 FOR YOUR DEGREE PER YEAR, UNLESS YOU HAVE PARENTS ON BENEFIT OR VERY NEAR IT, LIKE ME.

    sorry 4 shouting, but please read.
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    Sorry yes! I kno! I understand! My household income is £4000 so im in almost the same situ as u!
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    (Original post by Daveo)
    Sorry yes! I kno! I understand! My household income is £4000 so im in almost the same situ as u!
    exactly, so we dont get it bad.

    the £1200 fee reduction at the start, the £1000 grant, the £300 bursary.

    we get it good compared to others.
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    This is just another tax for the middle classes. The rich can afford it, the poor get funding. The middle classess, get nothing.

    When I get to uni and graduate, don't expect me to work for the NHS public for long. I'll be in private as soon as possible.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    This is just another tax for the middle classes. The rich can afford it, the poor get funding. The middle classess, get nothing.

    When I get to uni and graduate, don't expect me to work for the NHS public for long. I'll be in private as soon as possible.
    The Middle Classes are being hit hard by Labour.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    The Middle Classes are being hit hard by Labour.
    why though?

    why dont they hit the rich people hard if they want money?
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    (Original post by bono)
    why though?

    why dont they hit the rich people hard if they want money?
    Because the rich people give Labour money and donations.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    Because the rich people give Labour money and donations.
    ohhhh.........
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    OK lets spell this out shall we.

    Poor student with poor parents

    Will pay £3000pa tuition fees
    Will recieve £3000pa in grants/bursaries/fee remission (which is likely to be provided up front and not knocked off the pst graduation debt).
    Will recieve £4000 in student loans

    Income pa = £7,000
    Debt to be repaid at 9% of income above £15k = (£3k+£4k)*3=£21,000

    Middle class student living above the minimum income to achieve help

    Will pay £3000pa in tuition fees
    Will recieve £4000pa in Student loans

    Income pa = £4,000
    Debt = £21,000

    Compared to the situation today where a poor student recieves an income of £4000pa and a middle class student recieves and income of £3000pa-upfront fees of ~£1000...so middle class students will have their effective income from the government doubled while poor student will have their income from the government almost doubled.

    In exchange for paying off a student loan at very reasonable rates (in fact better rates than currently) for a few yrs extra (if 13yrs is the expected repayment time for the average debt under the new system the average repayment time now is over half that at about 8yrs)
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Discuss
    I cat believe that W***ER actually managed to pass the bill with a measly 5 votes. It aint possible coz am sure he needed about 72 a couple of days ago! I think he bribed sum membes of parliament somehow. What else is he gonna do to the country before he gets thrown outa parliament head first?!?!?!?!?!?!
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    OK lets spell this out shall we.

    Poor student with poor parents

    Will pay £3000pa tuition fees
    Will recieve £3000pa in grants/bursaries/fee remission (which is likely to be provided up front and not knocked off the pst graduation debt).
    Will recieve £4000 in student loans

    Income pa = £7,000
    Debt to be repaid at 9% of income above £15k = (£3k+£4k)*3=£21,000

    Middle class student living above the minimum income to achieve help

    Will pay £3000pa in tuition fees
    Will recieve £4000pa in Student loans

    Income pa = £4,000
    Debt = £21,000

    Compared to the situation today where a poor student recieves an income of £4000pa and a middle class student recieves and income of £3000pa-upfront fees of ~£1000...so middle class students will have their effective income from the government doubled while poor student will have their income from the government almost doubled.

    In exchange for paying off a student loan at very reasonable rates (in fact better rates than currently) for a few yrs extra (if 13yrs is the expected repayment time for the average debt under the new system the average repayment time now is over half that at about 8yrs)
    Oh *******s....forget what i just said. I think i understood the bill wrong!! Oops my mistake!!

    VERY EMBARESSED.....lol
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    OK lets spell this out shall we.

    Poor student with poor parents

    Will pay £3000pa tuition fees
    Will recieve £3000pa in grants/bursaries/fee remission (which is likely to be provided up front and not knocked off the pst graduation debt).
    Will recieve £4000 in student loans

    Income pa = £7,000
    Debt to be repaid at 9% of income above £15k = (£3k+£4k)*3=£21,000

    Middle class student living above the minimum income to achieve help

    Will pay £3000pa in tuition fees
    Will recieve £4000pa in Student loans

    Income pa = £4,000
    Debt = £21,000

    Compared to the situation today where a poor student recieves an income of £4000pa and a middle class student recieves and income of £3000pa-upfront fees of ~£1000...so middle class students will have their effective income from the government doubled while poor student will have their income from the government almost doubled.

    In exchange for paying off a student loan at very reasonable rates (in fact better rates than currently) for a few yrs extra (if 13yrs is the expected repayment time for the average debt under the new system the average repayment time now is over half that at about 8yrs)
    The debt for poor students wont be 21000, as the grants, bursaries and ree remissions are non-repayable. So if you take out the max loan each year of a three year course you only end up with a debt of 12000 if you are in the bottom third of family income (which, bono, is not 'only people on benefits' - many people are going to benefit from the grants and bursaries). It is the people just above this bottom third that are going to be hit the hardest.
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    (Original post by *dave*)
    The debt for poor students wont be 21000, as the grants, bursaries and ree remissions are non-repayable. So if you take out the max loan each year of a three year course you only end up with a debt of 12000 if you are in the bottom third of family income (which, bono, is not 'only people on benefits' - many people are going to benefit from the grants and bursaries). It is the people just above this bottom third that are going to be hit the hardest.
    Only if you spend your entire grant etc on paying your fees up front.

    If you were given £3k pa in non repayable money and £4k pa in loans would you really choose to bung the "free money" onto reducing the length of repayment on those loans (which is what in effect paying your fees upfront with grant money will do) or are you going to choose to have a reasonable income while you're studying in exchange for a slightly longer loan period when you've graduated.

    If (as is intended) you use the grant etc to live off you will pay £3k pa in fees + £4k pa in loans and end up with an identical debt to someone who wasn't entitled to any help.

    The idea behind the grants etc is that it levels the playing field a little and allows students likely to get no support from their parents to have the same choices over whether to pay up front or after as students likely to get a lot of support....of course there are people who will lose out because they are marginally above one boundary or another.
 
 
 
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