Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ben-smith)
    + repped
    You forgot to mention that that system which discriminates against the English is also (partially) funded by the English
    Not true. The Scottish government, like Wales and NI, receives a certain amount of money from the UK parliament to cover devolved issues (similar to the amount of money spent in England on these issues): agriculture, economic development, education, environment, police and fire services, local government, sport and the arts, transport, etc. Scotland chooses to spend some of its money on providing free tertiary education, at the expense of other issues (such as, say, hospitals). Different priorities. You can't blame the Scottish government for not making up for England's neglect. English people are outside their jurisdiction, and anyway, if Scottish universities charged no fees to the English they'd be overwhelmed with applications. It's an unfair system, but blame Westminster for your fees, not Holyrood.


    I want my Warwick offer now!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anyone_can_fly)
    Not true. The Scottish government, like Wales and NI, receives a certain amount of money from the UK parliament to cover devolved issues (similar to the amount of money spent in England on these issues): agriculture, economic development, education, environment, police and fire services, local government, sport and the arts, transport, etc. Scotland chooses to spend some of its money on providing free tertiary education, at the expense of other issues (such as, say, hospitals). Different priorities. You can't blame the Scottish government for not making up for England's neglect. English people are outside their jurisdiction, and anyway, if Scottish universities charged no fees to the English they'd be overwhelmed with applications. It's an unfair system, but blame Westminster for your fees, not Holyrood.


    I want my Warwick offer now!
    Where is Scotland worse off than England though?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by deejayy)
    Where is Scotland worse off than England though?
    Have a look for yourself.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anyone_can_fly)
    Not true. The Scottish government, like Wales and NI, receives a certain amount of money from the UK parliament to cover devolved issues (similar to the amount of money spent in England on these issues): agriculture, economic development, education, environment, police and fire services, local government, sport and the arts, transport, etc. Scotland chooses to spend some of its money on providing free tertiary education, at the expense of other issues (such as, say, hospitals). Different priorities. You can't blame the Scottish government for not making up for England's neglect. English people are outside their jurisdiction, and anyway, if Scottish universities charged no fees to the English they'd be overwhelmed with applications. It's an unfair system, but blame Westminster for your fees, not Holyrood.


    I want my Warwick offer now!
    1)as you say, since, as in many issues, Scotland receives money from Westminster to carry out devolved tasks then part (in fact, the majority) of the money must come from the English. My issue lies in the fact that these measures are openly discriminatory against the English. Why is it OK to take our money and then treat us that way? England is not any other country in the world, we are in a ******* union with you.
    2) I applaud Scottish local rule and devolution in general, this is just flagrant and rancid nationalism.
    3)I'm with you on the Warwick thing.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ben-smith)
    1)as you say, since, as in many issues, Scotland receives money from Westminster to carry out devolved tasks then part (in fact, the majority) of the money must come from the English. My issue lies in the fact that these measures are openly discriminatory against the English. Why is it OK to take our money and then treat us that way? England is not any other country in the world, we are in a ******* union with you.
    2) I applaud Scottish local rule and devolution in general, this is just flagrant and rancid nationalism.
    3)I'm with you on the Warwick thing.
    1) No, as Scotland puts in money to Westminster as well. The amounts in and out are comparable. England decided to introduce fees, Scotland decided not to. We aren't "taking your money". If English students didn't have to pay fees to Scotland, the Scottish universities would have thousands and thousands of applications from English students trying to avoid fees. It wouldn't make sense anyway, as Scottish students have to pay fees in English universities. Welsh students' fees are capped at £3,290 wherever they decide to study, and English students in Wales pay up to £9,000. Why aren't you railing against them?
    2) "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." :yep:
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anyone_can_fly)
    1) No, as Scotland puts in money to Westminster as well. The amounts in and out are comparable. England decided to introduce fees, Scotland decided not to. We aren't "taking your money". If English students didn't have to pay fees to Scotland, the Scottish universities would have thousands and thousands of applications from English students trying to avoid fees. It wouldn't make sense anyway, as Scottish students have to pay fees in English universities. Welsh students' fees are capped at £3,290 wherever they decide to study, and English students in Wales pay up to £9,000. Why aren't you railing against them?
    2) "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." :yep:
    1)So, to be clear, you object to the idea that Scotland receives any money from the english taxpayer?
    I am no expert in Scotland's finances, but I find this surprising considering England is a significantly bigger and richer country...
    2) Is that an "I agree" in code
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by officeface)
    Congratulations to everyone getting offers! Are there any people who have been through this waiting torment already who know very roughly when places like Durham or UCL begin to dish out offers?
    Not sure about UCL, but last year Durham was really late...my boyfriend didnt get an offer til about Feb/March!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ben-smith)
    1)So, to be clear, you object to the idea that Scotland receives any money from the english taxpayer?
    I am no expert in Scotland's finances, but I find this surprising considering England is a significantly bigger and richer country...
    2) Is that an "I agree" in code
    1) I'm not sure exactly how it balances out in the end, so I couldn't say that for certain. But Scots pay as much tax as anyone else, and size makes no difference - you wouldn't say that Yorkshire gives money to Bristol because Yorkshire is bigger, would you? There's also the crude oil in the North Sea, which I believe gives quite a lot of money to Westminster (though maybe not in the grand scheme of things).
    2) No, because I don't think tuition fees are an issue of nationalism - except in as far as inequality can always be said to be due to nationalism. But it's agreeing that nationalism is a bad thing.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by dnorma12)
    Not sure about UCL, but last year Durham was really late...my boyfriend didnt get an offer til about Feb/March!
    For most courses, Durham give out some early offers and rejections to people they are sure about one way or the other, then keep all of the "middle" students until Feb/Mar.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anyone_can_fly)
    1) I'm not sure exactly how it balances out in the end, so I couldn't say that for certain. But Scots pay as much tax as anyone else, and size makes no difference - you wouldn't say that Yorkshire gives money to Bristol because Yorkshire is bigger, would you? There's also the crude oil in the North Sea, which I believe gives quite a lot of money to Westminster (though maybe not in the grand scheme of things).
    2) No, because I don't think tuition fees are an issue of nationalism - except in as far as inequality can always be said to be due to nationalism. But it's agreeing that nationalism is a bad thing.
    This is my logic:
    Let's assume that Westminster distributes money about the UK uniformly (this happens to not be true but, for the moment, let's assume it is).
    Westminster collects taxes from all of the UK and put's it into a metaphorical pot and then redistributes the money to the constituents of the UK. England forms approximately 83% of the UK's population and so contributes the vast majority of this money. So any money that Scotland may receive from the central government will have a sizeable proportion of English money.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ben-smith)
    This is my logic:
    Let's assume that Westminster distributes money about the UK uniformly (this happens to not be true but, for the moment, let's assume it is).
    Westminster collects taxes from all of the UK and put's it into a metaphorical pot and then redistributes the money to the constituents of the UK. England forms approximately 83% of the UK's population and so contributes the vast majority of this money. So any money that Scotland may receive from the central government will have a sizeable proportion of English money.
    In your model, Scotland puts in 10% and receives 10%.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anyone_can_fly)
    In your model, Scotland puts in 10% and receives 10%.
    I don't believe that's what I said:confused:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Let's be honest guys, we're all part of the UK anyway
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ben-smith)
    I don't believe that's what I said:confused:
    You assumed that Westminster distributes money uniformly. As about 10% of the money they collect will come from Scotland (~10% of the UK's population), and 10% will go to Scotland, England does not contribute. I believe the Barnett formula makes this not quite accurate, but in your model England doesn't subsidise Scotland, or pay for Scottish students' tertiary education.

    If this debate carries on,
    (Original post by candide)
    .
    may need to get involved! I'm not much of a nationalist myself.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anyone_can_fly)
    You assumed that Westminster distributes money uniformly. As about 10% of the money they collect will come from Scotland (~10% of the UK's population), and 10% will go to Scotland, England does not contribute. I believe the Barnett formula makes this not quite accurate, but in your model England doesn't subsidise Scotland, or pay for Scottish students' tertiary education.

    If this debate carries on,

    may need to get involved! I'm not much of a nationalist myself.
    I was being stupid, I meant to say: "collects money uniformly".
    The crux of the matter is: Money is redistributed by the treasury. I was (and still am) under the impression that English money is being transferred to Scotland where it is used to fund the scheme in question. This is a discriminatory measure as it purposefully excludes the English. If the Scots want to discriminate against the English, they would do well to use their own money.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    just got a reply from oxford. i went for an open application, they assigned me to exeter.
    nerves are bubbling to a new extreme.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Just got an offer from UCL :awesome:

    A*AA in Maths, Further, and a third subject
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by dnumberwang)
    Just got an offer from UCL :awesome:
    Same here! A*AA aswell.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by dnumberwang)
    Just got an offer from UCL :awesome:

    A*AA in Maths, Further, and a third subject
    Congratulations!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ben-smith)
    I was being stupid, I meant to say: "collects money uniformly".
    The crux of the matter is: Money is redistributed by the treasury. I was (and still am) under the impression that English money is being transferred to Scotland where it is used to fund the scheme in question. This is a discriminatory measure as it purposefully excludes the English. If the Scots want to discriminate against the English, they would do well to use their own money.
    Scottish money is used to fund the scheme, and the money would otherwise benefit the people of Scotland in a different way. It does not exclude the English, as the fees are comparable to what they are in England - it just avoids giving them a financial incentive to come. Ultimately, the English must look to Westminster for their unfair fees.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
Updated: October 31, 2013

University open days

  • Sheffield Hallam University
    City Campus Postgraduate
    Wed, 17 Oct '18
  • Northumbria University
    All faculties Undergraduate
    Wed, 17 Oct '18
  • Staffordshire University
    Nursing and Midwifery Undergraduate
    Wed, 17 Oct '18
Poll
Who is most responsible for your success at university

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.