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Cameron is a liar, how can we afford war when we're broke? watch

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    (Original post by 10joey10)
    The ignorance of some people is actually astounding, and pretty depressing.

    To answer pretty much everything all the haters have said:

    a) It isn't a war. Go read the resolution: The BBC have even analysed it for you so you can understand. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12782972

    b) We can afford it - money is already spent on Jet fuel, ordnance, pilots etc - it comes out the MOD budget.

    c) Gadafii is committing genocide. If the international community (lead by the UN, using western assets) can help to stop that then we should.

    d) Comparing Cameron to Gadaffi/Hitler/Stalin/"enter dictator here", just shows how ignorant and childish you are. Grow up.

    e) Those who complain at American/British imperialism or some sort of conspiracy theory that we are only in it for oil need to think about what they would be saying had we not acted... the complaints would be flying in about the failure to stop atrocities on Europe's borders.

    End of lecture. :smartass:
    Thank you for the lecture sir. :hat2:

    Donno about the rest of the class though, I guess the first sentence sums it up.
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    [QUOTE=jesusandtequila;30467769]
    (Original post by ilickbatteries)
    We don't go after every madman dictator though.

    Only ones with oil.[/quotes]

    Or not, since we're not after the Saudis who have far more oil. That theory just went down the well. We intervened in Kosovo in 1999, we should have in Rwanda, and we are here. It makes sense and you're failing to realise that this isn't a British invasion of Libya, it's a multi-lateral prevention of slaughter of civilians.


    Sorry, how are we small? I just set out some facts that show we're not, yet you keep re-iterating this, please do explain.
    Why aren't we bothering with Mugabe then? He's a madman.

    We're small in terms of area and population.

    This discussion is going nowhere. I'm not going to budge from my position and you're not going to budge from yours.

    I think we have better things to do than be World Police.

    By the way, spending a lot of defence doesn't exactly make us big...
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    (Original post by ilickbatteries)
    Why aren't we bothering with Mugabe then? He's a madman.
    He's not currently slaughtering his own people by the thousands...

    We're small in terms of area and population.
    Which are relevant how?

    I think we have better things to do than be World Police.
    We're not being the World Police, you fail to se this.

    By the way, spending a lot of defence doesn't exactly make us big...
    It does militarily.
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    (Original post by jesusandtequila)
    He's not currently slaughtering his own people by the thousands...


    Which are relevant how?


    We're not being the World Police, you fail to se this.


    It does militarily.
    Why does the UK have to jump into this conflict?

    Why, for once, can we not just sit back and say yeah, okay we don't need to get involved in everything for once. It's not like our own country has any problems, a lack of money, jobs being lost everywhere...not to mention a history of poor decisions 'intervening' in other countries problems.

    Argue your point all you like, I'm not moving from my position.

    We have the money to spend on Libya but we're laying off however many RAF pilots, young lads who have nothing else to do now. The MOD is axing 2500 civilian jobs, but we have the money to go to Libya? Wonderful. Thanks Cameron.
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    (Original post by ilickbatteries)
    Why does the UK have to jump into this conflict?
    See below. It's the only moral course of action.

    Why, for once, can we not just sit back and say yeah, okay we don't need to get involved in everything for once. It's not like our own country has any problems, a lack of money, jobs being lost everywhere...not to mention a history of poor decisions 'intervening' in other countries problems.
    So who sorts it? We sit back and let the rest of the international community shoulder the responsibility? Or, if this is as you paint, a British invasion (which it isn't, it's action on part of the international community), then who stops the thousands of people being killed? We can't sit back because we're either not doing our job as one of the countries with large resources as part of the international community, or we're allowing the slaughter on a huge scale of innocent people. What of the mother, living on the poverty line after 40+ years of repression by her government, who can't even speak out against them? She as she finally thinks she has the chance to improve her life gets tortured as Gaddafi-forces repress their own people. We shouldn't intervene for some leisure centres? Why shouldn't Britain stop Gaddafi from torturing his own people, it's not an invasion, it's not regime change, it's stopping the mass murder he is committing. That gives the chance for the Libyan people to decide their own destiny.

    Argue your point all you like, I'm not moving from my position.
    So you keep saying. I can only show you that it is baseless.

    We have the money to spend on Libya but we're laying off however many RAF pilots, young lads who have nothing else to do now. The MOD is axing 2500 civilian jobs, but we have the money to go to Libya? Wonderful. Thanks Cameron.
    Yes, there exists a special fund for military action. We have a long-term plan to get the British finances in shape and a government good enough to have a contingency so that they can stop mass human rights abuses.
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    (Original post by jesusandtequila)
    See below. It's the only moral course of action.


    So who sorts it? We sit back and let the rest of the international community shoulder the responsibility? Or, if this is as you paint, a British invasion (which it isn't, it's action on part of the international community), then who stops the thousands of people being killed? We can't sit back because we're either not doing our job as one of the countries with large resources as part of the international community, or we're allowing the slaughter on a huge scale of innocent people. What of the mother, living on the poverty line after 40+ years of repression by her government, who can't even speak out against them? She as she finally thinks she has the chance to improve her life gets tortured as Gaddafi-forces repress their own people. We shouldn't intervene for some leisure centres? Why shouldn't Britain stop Gaddafi from torturing his own people, it's not an invasion, it's not regime change, it's stopping the mass murder he is committing. That gives the chance for the Libyan people to decide their own destiny.


    So you keep saying. I can only show you that it is baseless.


    Yes, there exists a special fund for military action. We have a long-term plan to get the British finances in shape and a government good enough to have a contingency so that they can stop mass human rights abuses.
    Baseless in your opinion, not in mine.

    In all honesty, I can't actually be bothered to read the huge wall of text.

    I think we should look after ourselves first.
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    Africa - genocide - action - nothing
    libiya - 3,000 dead in a civil WAR - action - blowing s*** up and getting ready to invade.


    do they really want to get rid of JUST gaddafi and then leave? i think not...

    erm, but his own people took up arms and tried to over throw him. if we did that to our PM do you think he would let us? or send in a few challanger 2's?

    the reason we are doing this we have got ourselves into a position were we are seen as a major power with major force and we need to help who ever we can, although no one has seem to realise that this country has no military punch, and certainly does not have the means to invade and occupy a country, the FALKLANDS will never happen again, in the same that if it does get taken over we are powerless because we do not have anything to take it back with.

    + how can the MOD justify the new Typhoons? they got to shoot down some planes and blow up some tanks to test out the new weapon systems :P
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    It is interesting how the man made global warming mantras and humankinds harm to the environment is suddenly forgotten about when there is war (oil) to be had. Do we really know just who these 'rebels' are? will the resulting regime be better not only for the average lybian but also will it lessen the likelyhood of a full scale war in the middle east? The new Egyptian regime has already shown it's hand by aiding the enemies of Israel.

    Obama is doing his best to dither around wringing his hands while his war mongering buffoons like Hilary Clinton are setting fire to the middle east. Clinton has revealed herself now, she has no loyalty to Obama, in fact it is common knowledge both she and bill dislike him. There are calls on both the left and right to impeach Obama because the US has involved itself in yet another armed action without consulting the relevant parties properly and because he is completely out of his depth.

    As for Cameron ,big timing it when he has been cutting defence to the bone... Has he been taking lessons for Bliar? I wager he wants a 'kosovo' like Blair, something to increase his international standing for future adventures and to take peoples minds off the mess he and his floppy haired girlymen mates are making of Labours pile of dog sh1t they left.
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    we're not broke, this is an excuse for all the cuts.
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    (Original post by mathew551)
    Please just shut up. This is not a war.

    Watch the news.
    This. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by R.B.G)
    The Japaneese are pre-occupied at the minute.
    omg LOL!
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    (Original post by itsmyname)
    A) It's not a war
    B) It is only morally right we intervene in a country where a crazy dictator has vowed to crush 'those drug addicts and cockroaches'.
    C) If we stood by and watched, the blood of the massacred would be on our hands, especially since we sold Gaddafi those weapons
    D) It's not a war
    A) It is a war. It is not an intervention- it is a war. Bombing and intruding in another country's airspace is an act of war.

    B) Moral- seriously do you think someone went "****, Gadaffi is killing his own people" ignoring what was going on in Saudia Arabia, Yemen, Ivory Coast...

    C) sold Gadaffi weapons, did we fail to realise when we best pals with Gadafii that he was killing his own people? Why the sudden change of heart? What about the weapons sold to other dictators killing their own people?

    D) I forgot we are broke. Apparently our government allocated a budget and it turned out it was not enough. Every missile that is fired is a waste of millions of pounds. Not forgetting, the fuel, maintenance etc... adding upto millions. We could employ more doctors, more nurses, more teachers...
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    Cameron seems to care more about other countries instead of ours.

    I hope we can learn from our mistakes and never vote for conservatives AGAIN
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    Here's my advice: Look at government spending figures against taxation receipts, that is the deficit, it's plain to see and is accepted by all politicians and economists, it isn't like UFOs or the Loch Ness Monster, it exists. The savings the government are undertaking are to fix that funding gap, the opposition may not agree to the exact cuts Cameron is doing, but everyone with a brain can see that taking out a loan of £150 billion every single year in order to keep the NHS, military, pensions, education, etc, properly funding is a bad idea. Therefore, you need to cut something.

    That said, Gaddafi is slaughtering his own people, and it's very hard to justify doing nothing, even when strapped for cash (in a similar vein, would financial difficulties in the 1940s justify leaving the Holocaust unchallenged?). We have armed forces, so we are using them, they'd only be sat around doing nothing if we didn't.
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    Well, im glad I left that God forsaken land!!!
    I do feel sorry for the poor though...the cuts are gonna affect them the most.
    Hopefully it will teach you guys to think carefully because you vote.
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    The so called goverment can not put money into hospitals but can write blank cheques for wars .We are in this mess with Isis because of the illegal war of Bush/Blair who got away with it.Where is this money tree?
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    If you've learnt anything from four years of Cameron, it's that he is VAIN. Anything that he can do to get himself publicity he will do. This includes intervening in other countries' affairs and looking like a world statesman when he is in fact a spineless charlatan with no principles whatsoever.

    Did you see him being hailed by euphoric crowds in Libya as a "liberator"? No one in Britain would have given him such a tumultuous reception, and for good reason. Three years on and the Libyan Parliament is in hiding, tribes and terrorists rule the roost and good money has been wasted.

    All the while the national debt steadily increases. Our country is heading for disaster.

    What we should have done:

    -Formed a coalition of all the Middle Eastern countries to take on ISIS.
    -Allied with Assad in his bid to re-assert control over his country.
    -Got Saudi Arabia and Jordan to do the bombing and invading, forced the corrupt Saudi royal family to stop its support for terrorists.
    -Got Iran to send in troops.
    -Arranged for Iraq to be peacefully split. It's a non-country. It's spurious claims to territorial integrity are made all the more pathetic when you consider the fact that the borders of Iraq were nothing more than lines drawn on a map somewhere in the Foreign Office over a mug of coffee.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Here's my advice: Look at government spending figures against taxation receipts, that is the deficit, it's plain to see and is accepted by all politicians and economists, it isn't like UFOs or the Loch Ness Monster, it exists. The savings the government are undertaking are to fix that funding gap, the opposition may not agree to the exact cuts Cameron is doing, but everyone with a brain can see that taking out a loan of £150 billion every single year in order to keep the NHS, military, pensions, education, etc, properly funding is a bad idea. Therefore, you need to cut something.

    That said, Gaddafi is slaughtering his own people, and it's very hard to justify doing nothing, even when strapped for cash (in a similar vein, would financial difficulties in the 1940s justify leaving the Holocaust unchallenged?). We have armed forces, so we are using them, they'd only be sat around doing nothing if we didn't.
    Why is it that people think it helps their case to compare almost everything to the Nazis?

    Gaddafi had a terrible army fraught by internal, mostly tribal, divisions. There was no way he could have perpetrated a massacre on the scale that Western media were insisting he could. Half of his army practically melted away. There was no way he could have gone from city to city and wiped out every single tribe that dared to challenge his rule. There was no emergency, and no need to intervene.
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    (Original post by why not me)
    The so called goverment can not put money into hospitals but can write blank cheques for wars .We are in this mess with Isis because of the illegal war of Bush/Blair who got away with it.Where is this money tree?
    Don't bump old threads
 
 
 
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