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    (Original post by Sereni)
    I think the government has made some mistakes but in principle it is the right thing to do. On the topic of education cuts, a loan is available to pay for your course that doesnt have to be repaid until you are earning 21k or more. One person said that our main export is ideas. I would say that even if I accept this premise the cuts will not have a massive effect on this. Unis can now charge for most of the cost so the real change in cash flow is not very major, and the ideas you say are being exported... do you think someone who is determined to study physics at Ox-Bridge will be put off by the increased fees. If your argument is that we need to preserve our ideas then I would suggest that the people who put forwards ideas are still going to go to uni
    If opportunities can be bought and sold they're not fair for all. Obviously rich kids are going to be less put off by the debt, and universities will go back to how they used to be, just for the rich. Damn tories.
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    (Original post by MovingOn)
    The problem is many people complain about the debt and want it to be cut, but they don't want to have to suffer any cutbacks themselves. It will never change, some people are just self centred, they want but they don't want to give personally.
    If only you had a Public Sector job and just lost it, be delighted would you? :thumbup:

    Surprise surprise people are going to be self centred when it comes to being able to EAT and have a ROOF above their heads.
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    (Original post by Lady Gaga's Bottom)
    If only you had a Public Sector job and just lost it, be delighted would you? :thumbup:

    Surprise surprise people are going to be self centred when it comes to being able to EAT and have a ROOF above their heads.
    Delighted? Obviously not, no need to be pedantic. With that said, I believe everything happens for a reason and would see it as a reason to look for something better. In this country you won't be faced with the prospect of not being able to eat and have shelter, we have welfare and emergency accomodation in a worst case scenario.
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    (Original post by MovingOn)
    Delighted? Obviously not, no need to be pedantic. With that said, I believe everything happens for a reason and would see it as a reason to look for something better. In this country you won't be faced with the prospect of not being able to eat and have shelter, we have welfare and emergency accomodation in a worst case scenario.
    You tell me where in the private sector can a teaching assistant for a school for children with disabilities can find employment? In the same role.

    "I've lost my job, but it's alright kids there is "emergency shelter" and a welfare system that takes a long time to process any claim"

    Yeah that's right, I'm talking about a family, not me.
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    (Original post by Lady Gaga's Bottom)
    You tell me where in the private sector can a teaching assistant for a school for children with disabilities can find employment? In the same role.

    "I've lost my job, but it's alright kids there is "emergency shelter" and a welfare system that takes a long time to process any claim"

    Yeah that's right, I'm talking about a family, not me.
    That's life darling, we can't always trundle along doing the same job forever more. My father was made redundant three years ago, he has had to change industries, taken a pay cut of over £12K P/A and lost all other benefits including a company car, company phone, fuel card etc etc and even a pension! He went into a depression and couldn't pay the mortgage for weeks, but thank God he pulled himself out of it and found a new job. That's life, you have to be a fighter sometimes. So about the family crap, I've been there and lived it, so save your breath with the patronising.

    A TA for special needs can get work as a non-special needs TA. A person qualified as a TA can also work in a daycare setting. The possibilites are endless for people who aren't narrow minded.
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    Cuts are necessary, people just moan. If they want to close down libraries that cost millions to maintain (nationwide) that only recieve a visitor a day then so be it i dont c the loss they are just tryin 2 reduce waste that got us into this mess in the first place. They cant do anytin any more without a protest.
    I believe that if it isnt profitable or isnt providing a service to enough people it should be cut or sold off to the private sector which can then stop some services or make it profitable once again providin jobs. It will no longer come out of the public purse and the money saved can go to payin of the deficit.
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    (Original post by MovingOn)
    That's life darling, we can't always trundle along doing the same job forever more. My father was made redundant three years ago, he has had to change industries, taken a pay cut of over £12K P/A and lost all other benefits including a company car, company phone, fuel card etc etc and even a pension! He went into a depression and couldn't pay the mortgage for weeks, but thank God he pulled himself out of it and found a new job. That's life, you have to be a fighter sometimes. So about the family crap, I've been there and lived it, so save your breath with the patronising.

    A TA for special needs can get work as a non-special needs TA. A person qualified as a TA can also work in a daycare setting. The possibilites are endless for people who aren't narrow minded.
    Feisty one you are. Take your own advice dear, read back what you've said, I've never resorted to branding you. :top2:

    (Original post by Sebastian Bartlett)
    Cuts are necessary, people just moan. If they want to close down libraries that cost millions to maintain (nationwide) that only recieve a visitor a day then so be it i dont c the loss they are just tryin 2 reduce waste that got us into this mess in the first place. They cant do anytin any more without a protest.
    I believe that if it isnt profitable or isnt providing a service to enough people it should be cut or sold off to the private sector which can then stop some services or make it profitable once again providin jobs. It will no longer come out of the public purse and the money saved can go to payin of the deficit.
    That's the point in public sector, it's Not for profit.
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    (Original post by Lady Gaga's Bottom)
    Feisty one you are. Take your own advice dear, read back what you've said, I've never resorted to branding you. :top2:



    That's the point in public sector, it's Not for profit.
    Yeah, I tend to be quite feisty when people are ignorant and plain rude to me. Ho hum!
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    (Original post by MovingOn)
    Yeah, I tend to be quite feisty when people are ignorant and plain rude to me. Ho hum!
    And how was one ignorant and rude? I was having a friendly debate.
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    (Original post by Smelly Ellie)
    Not going to war, not wasting money on a ridiculous 'big society', tax bankers bonuses big style, stop the benefit system being ripped off, reduce waste in the public sector etc. etc.

    Putting students off university will cripple our economy, lets face it ideas are our main export.
    that's got nothing to do with being progressive or regressive.

    secondly, the benefit system is one of the largest components of government spending so it simply has to be cut; no contractionary fiscal policy on this scale can ignore cutting a large amount of social security spending. public sector efficiency savings are already being made to reduce waste. the tuition fee increase does not affect international students so education still remains a strong export industry. furthermore, studies have shown that the tuition fees increase does not put off students from applying to university; other factors have greater efficacy. this means that the tuition fees increase is not regressive in fact it is arguable that it is in fact progressive. the idea that any of the changes in higher education will cripple the economy is utter nonsense, there is simply no clear reasoning or evidence to show that. on the issue of bankers bonuses, it simply does not matter how much they are taxed, it will make no difference on whether cuts are made elsewhere or not; the money involved is too small. Bonuses taxes are simply shallow political moves that won't make any difference to overall fiscal policy; the bonus taxes are simply there to make people feel less angry: they are useless.
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    (Original post by doctorryan)
    Yes, but the majority of people didn't cause this crisis and yet they are going to have to pay for it. Fair much?
    People complain because they can see the people who caused this crisis getting away scott free; I.E Sir Fred Goodwin of RBS.
    So, I think they have a right to be against cuts to their services.
    Yes the majority of people didnt cause the crisis but the majority of people did enjoy a higher standard of living under labour because we were living well beyond our means. If labour atleast saved when times were good then we wouldnt have to cut so much. The way we were going under labour was unsustainable.

    Also the crisis was caused by many reasons. You cant just pin it on one or a few people. It was the banks, government, regulators, financial companies, they all played their part.
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    (Original post by Smelly Ellie)
    If opportunities can be bought and sold they're not fair for all. Obviously rich kids are going to be less put off by the debt, and universities will go back to how they used to be, just for the rich. Damn tories.
    Anyoen can take out a loan to cover tuition fees and living costs. Not just rich people.
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    (Original post by NGC773)
    Anyoen can take out a loan to cover tuition fees and living costs. Not just rich people.
    It stands to reason that rich people don't have to take out loans to pay for tuition fees or living costs as often as the rest are likely to. If the rich do take out such loans they easily need smaller ones and are less likely to have problems making repayments (cos they're rich). The idea that rich and poor are somehow "equal" in this regard because everyone can (can they?) get a loan is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    It stands to reason that rich people don't have to take out loans to pay for tuition fees or living costs as often as the rest are likely to. If the rich do take out such loans they easily need smaller ones and are less likely to have problems making repayments (cos they're rich). The idea that rich and poor are somehow "equal" in this regard because everyone can (can they?) get a loan is ridiculous.
    Can you define rich in this context?
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    It stands to reason that rich people don't have to take out loans to pay for tuition fees or living costs as often as the rest are likely to. If the rich do take out such loans they easily need smaller ones and are less likely to have problems making repayments (cos they're rich). The idea that rich and poor are somehow "equal" in this regard because everyone can (can they?) get a loan is ridiculous.
    You need to look into how student loans work and then comment on the subject. Talking about poor people not being able to keep up with 'repayments' is just talking rubbish.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    It stands to reason that rich people don't have to take out loans to pay for tuition fees or living costs as often as the rest are likely to. If the rich do take out such loans they easily need smaller ones and are less likely to have problems making repayments (cos they're rich). The idea that rich and poor are somehow "equal" in this regard because everyone can (can they?) get a loan is ridiculous.
    Everyone starts repaying the loan once thier earning £21,000, if you're earning £21,000, you aren't poor anymore. So rich and poor doesnt even come into it, NOBODY will have any problems repaying a loan, in very small amounts each year.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Can you define rich in this context?
    It's a relative concept, but the principle always applies - the richer you are the easier you are going to find money in comparison with someone less well off.
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    (Original post by Bosch)
    Everyone starts repaying the loan once thier earning £21,000, if you're earning £21,000, you aren't poor anymore. So rich and poor doesnt even come into it, NOBODY will have any problems repaying a loan, in very small amounts each year.
    If you're rich you're more likely to already have those things which those from from less advantaged origins still need to pay for. The obvious example would be property. Rich students sometimes have a flat bought for them when they go off to university - I know because I've met students in this very position. Under these circumstances the rich student's wages don't have to go into a mortgage or rent as easily as they do in the case of a less well-off student. Even in this single example it's easy to see how rich students can easily come out of their university life less financially burdened than others.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    It's a relative concept, but the principle always applies - the richer you are the easier you are going to find money in comparison with someone less well off.
    So are you just talking rich in liquid terms not in total asset terms?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So are you just talking rich in liquid terms not in total asset terms?
    I wouldn't necessarily differentiate in that in both terms a 'rich' student or graduate may find their financial burdens eased when compared to one less well-off; if they already own a property they don't have to obtain a mortgage or rent, if they have liquid capital then their salary is less subject to automatic depletion by the need for a mortgage or rent.
 
 
 
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