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For those of you who do dumbbell bench press and similar lifts watch

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    (Original post by IGregg)
    yup same technique i use
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    (Original post by Resu Eman)
    Your post said "lets see him do it with a pair of 80kg dumbbells". Clearly if you're staying on topic it's not important that it's him in particular, nor that the technique is identical. Of course you could be going off topic by making the point that you don't think much of Mark Rippetoe. The point that he's not all that strong is valid, but you might as well just say it if that's what you mean. On the (even at the time obviously flawed) assumption that you were staying on topic, I posted a video of someone doing something similar with heavy dumbbells. Now your point is that it's not a good idea due to safety considerations. This could also be a valid point but unless "lets see him do it with a pair of 80kg dumbbells" is your way of saying "I want to see him get injured", you didn't mention it at all in your first two posts.
    No, I am saying it is a flawed technique - as you posted yourself Big ron did NOT do what riptoe did.

    To generate the force required to hoist dumbbells quickly into the straight arm position also requires you generate enough opposing force to prevent over extension while the dumbbell is at the end of the longest moment it will be during that particular exercise which is dangerous and damaging to your shoulders - if you note Ron takes them into the bottom position - a much stronger position when considering horizontal force due to the shortened moment.

    Similar only to someone who doesn't understand basic physics - the differences in force are actually vast.
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    (Original post by Resu Eman)
    Your post said "lets see him do it with a pair of 80kg dumbbells". Clearly if you're staying on topic it's not important that it's him in particular, nor that the technique is identical. Of course you could be going off topic by making the point that you don't think much of Mark Rippetoe. The point that he's not all that strong is valid, but you might as well just say it if that's what you mean. On the (even at the time obviously flawed) assumption that you were staying on topic, I posted a video of someone doing something similar with heavy dumbbells. Now your point is that it's not a good idea due to safety considerations. This could also be a valid point but unless "lets see him do it with a pair of 80kg dumbbells" is your way of saying "I want to see him get injured", you didn't mention it at all in your first two posts.
    Ronnie got into position in a similar way but he just dropped the dumbbells after he'd used them which was completely different to what that other video showed to do.
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    (Original post by Powerlifter)
    No, I am saying it is a flawed technique - as you posted yourself Big ron did NOT do what riptoe did.

    To generate the force required to hoist dumbbells quickly into the straight arm position also requires you generate enough opposing force to prevent over extension while the dumbbell is at the end of the longest moment it will be during that particular exercise which is dangerous and damaging to your shoulders - if you note Ron takes them into the bottom position - a much stronger position when considering horizontal force due to the shortened moment.

    Similar only to someone who doesn't understand basic physics - the differences in force are actually vast.
    Let's say that one person uses Rippetoe's technique with 15kg DBs while another uses it with 50kg DBs. The forces involved are vastly different, but the movements aren't just similar, they're identical.

    Or you could be opening a stiff door. The effort required depends upon how far from the hinge you are applying the force, but opening the door is the same motion regardless of where you're pushing.

    It's a flawed technique when used on 80kg dumbbells. He neither used it on 80kg dumbbells nor suggested using it on 80kg dumbbells. I would hope that anyone using such a heavy weight would see that the technique has to be adjusted.

    Possibly you're saying that it's a flawed technique with any weight. If so I apologise for not spotting that statements such as "lets see him do it with a pair of 80kg dumbbells!" and "Ha ha yeah, sure kid like you would know how it works with 80kg dumbbells" mean "lifting the dumbbells with straight arms as he does is dangerous".
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    In the video he said "the heaviest dumbbells in the rack can be done this way."
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    (Original post by The Troll Toll)
    In the video he said "the heaviest dumbbells in the rack can be done this way."
    His "very heavy" dumbbells were 34kg. The video isn't aimed at people who have 80kg dumbbells in their rack.

    I'll accept that if you have 80kg dumbbells and take his statement literally then you could seriously hurt yourself. I'll also accept that when thinking about that comment Powerlifter's first post makes sense, but I think he could have been much clearer as he made no reference to safety until his third post.
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    For some reason I thought common sense would prevail as opposed to someone desperate on the internet to argue and play semantics as if it really matters.

    I made no reference as it was not needed, your retort with the Ronnie Coleman video did not demonstrate what Rip was doing - I would prefer you saw the difference yourself rather than having to wipe your arse over such matters.
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    (Original post by OMG TOOTHBRUSH)
    Ronnie got into position in a similar way but he just dropped the dumbbells after he'd used them which was completely different to what that other video showed to do.
    I have seen vids of people getting up the way he shows with 50-65kg db's, not saying thats good or right.. just saying..
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    (Original post by OMG TOOTHBRUSH)
    Ronnie got into position in a similar way but he just dropped the dumbbells after he'd used them which was completely different to what that other video showed to do.
    If he'd dropped them like that in my gym he would have killed about 6 people.
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    (Original post by Powerlifter)
    For some reason I thought common sense would prevail as opposed to someone desperate on the internet to argue and play semantics as if it really matters.

    I made no reference as it was not needed, your retort with the Ronnie Coleman video did not demonstrate what Rip was doing - I would prefer you saw the difference yourself rather than having to wipe your arse over such matters.
    I would never have felt it sensible to try Rippetoe's exact technique with 80kg dumbbells (even if I were strong enough), but I still don't find it at all obvious that "lets see him do it with 80kg dumbbells" is a comment on the safety considerations. It could mean that you don't think that someone could get 80kg dumbbells into position without help. It could mean that you think Mark Rippetoe is weak. It could mean that you don't think that it's possible to do it without bending your arms. While it could mean that you don't consider it safe to do it without bending your arms, there was no indication that this was the intended meaning.
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    (Original post by Resu Eman)
    Blah blah blah justifying pointless arguing for no apparent reason other than to try to swell my e-balls
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    (Original post by Resu Eman)
    .
    Basically, it is possible to use poor technique on lighter weights. Heavier weights leave less margin for error and the technique that Rippetoe is showing probably doesn't work for those heavier weights. Kicking the dumbells up as Ronnie does works for heavier weights. I am not really in a position to explain why physiologically but anecdotally, all of the strong people kick them up like Ronnie does and nobody strong I've seen does it how Rippetoe tells you to. Therefore I am much more likely to trust the stronger dudes (all other things being equal.) I might just be prejudiced because I can't get his method to work to savem y life though
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    (Original post by Powerlifter)
    lol

    ON topic: If some people try and move heavy things too fast, the weight will either go 1 way and your body goes the other way or they will simply collide in a bad way.

    I was in the gym earlier and this guy asked me to spot some 35kg DBs and after the set he did the typical dumping of DBs but unlike ron, this guy let his wrist do the direction and the DB was still in his hand.

    Told him he can snap his wrist doing that (loads do it) but gave the typical response of "yea..yea". I currently do 42Kg DBs having come from benching as I am stopping it for now but theres a bigger chance of **** up with DBs than a barbell.
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    (Original post by The Blind Monk)
    Basically, it is possible to use poor technique on lighter weights. Heavier weights leave less margin for error and the technique that Rippetoe is showing probably doesn't work for those heavier weights. Kicking the dumbells up as Ronnie does works for heavier weights. I am not really in a position to explain why physiologically but anecdotally, all of the strong people kick them up like Ronnie does and nobody strong I've seen does it how Rippetoe tells you to. Therefore I am much more likely to trust the stronger dudes (all other things being equal.) I might just be prejudiced because I can't get his method to work to savem y life though
    I understand that. My issue is that Powerlifter made an ambiguous post and then completely failed to clear up the issue until at least his third post (the second post is half about how his original post isn't particularly relevant), but is acting as if everything had been perfectly clear.

    Powerlifter is significantly stronger and more knowledgeable about lifting than I am and is an extremely valuable resource for these forums, but his attitude can be offputting.
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    (Original post by Resu Eman)
    I understand that. My issue is that Powerlifter made an ambiguous post and then completely failed to clear up the issue until at least his third post (the second post is half about how his original post isn't particularly relevant), but is acting as if everything had been perfectly clear.

    Powerlifter is significantly stronger and more knowledgeable about lifting than I am and is an extremely valuable resource for these forums, but his attitude can be offputting.
    Read back fella, you posted a video which I responded to - you did not post any question at all. Before you accuse others of not being clear examine your own methods.
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    Can't people figure out for themselves how to use DBs? They're DBs ffs.
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    (Original post by The Troll Toll)
    Can't people figure out for themselves how to use DBs? They're DBs ffs.
    Most guys dont know what the **** they're doing hallf the time in any gym, anywhere. So the chances of that are very slim.
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    (Original post by Powerlifter)
    Read back fella, you posted a video which I responded to - you did not post any question at all. Before you accuse others of not being clear examine your own methods.
    I accept that I wasn't clear either when I posted the video. (I was actually being deliberately awkward since I thought that your post was a dig at Rippetoe's strength. Obviously even if I had been right I still shouldn't have done that.) Starting your response with "Because Ronnie coleman is Riptoe? or do you feel Mr Coleman represents the same group that riptoe is targeting? Of similar build and strength?", however, distracted from the intended meaning without adding anything relevant.

    I also accept that I've a couple of times focused on your specific wording when it was more relevant to focus on your intended meaning. (The thing about force is an obvious example.) I personally don't think this wrong, but I can understand others disagreeing.
 
 
 
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