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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Where did I say that's all they do? You present yourself as balanced but you're only interested in the negatives of Western policy. The fact is the West has been more humanitarian, and democracy promoting, than any civilisation or group since the start of time. And that aint half bad.
    There are indeed very many positives such as developments in medicine but even with that large Western pharmaceutical companies and putting patents on said medicines and preventing them reaching the areas where there are most needed- either that or charging prices which few can afford. In this context, it's fine to say the system of democracy WITHIN Western countries is amiable but at the end of the day, you are very naive if you think the Americans in particular have promoted democracy and freedom worldwide especially during the Cold War.
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    oh shut up....:bike:
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    There are indeed very many positives such as developments in medicine but even with that large Western pharmaceutical companies and putting patents on said medicines and preventing them reaching the areas where there are most needed- either that or charging prices which few can afford. In this context, it's fine to say the system of democracy WITHIN Western countries is amiable but at the end of the day, you are very naive if you think the Americans in particular have promoted democracy and freedom worldwide especially during the Cold War.
    And how do you expect a country to behave during decades of stalemate with its rival superpower? The West is practically the only reason the majority of the world is alive right now anyway, so quit your bleating. It is thanks to (in part) American support and pressure that the following countries are democratic:
    Germany
    Russia (at least partially)
    Italy
    Spain
    Austria
    Poland
    Czech Republic
    Slovakia
    Ukraine
    Serbia
    Croatia
    Latvia
    Uruguay
    Brazil
    Chile
    Mexico
    Japan

    Plus the other 70+ countries in the last quarter of a century that have become democracies, with help in part from America. 5 of which have been from a direct military intervention from the US. For somebody who is proud to be from a country who's only contribution to the world is terrorism and humans it can barely feed you sure are critical. I take it from your lack of replies in the other thread, because you lost, that you think Mo Mo should be hung drawn and quartered for his genocidal ways? How are you going to get into heaven with that attitude I wonder? :lol:
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    (Original post by imzir)
    X
    rehn de imzir.
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    (Original post by yituool)
    Oh, so now you've changed your mind on Rwanda.

    The UN greatly succeeded in its primary aims in Somalia (particularly with the UNITAF operation), which was, like today in Libya, not to try and end the conflict, but to uphold humanitarian aid. Obviously ending the conflict was a near impossible goal.

    I've already answered your question. The primary reason there was never such intervention in Zimbabwe is because it was never at the forefront of international media attention for as long as Lybia has been. That's the sad reality. I also assume you're talking about the Rhodesian civil war in the 60s/70s. Well you've made one of the biggest 'rookie' mistakes in the study of international relations, comparing a conflict from the cold war period with one from the post-cold war period. These are two completely different eras and circumstances, which I really shouldn't have to explain to you.
    No, I thought you were going on about the UN trust territory just after wwII for independence (Rwanda) I thought that the un did some good with that.
    Somalia barely gets anything :confused: They were left to rot. Everyone who could afford to leave left in the 80s.
    :hmmm: Zimbabwe was reported on a lot esp 2008 with the elections and Morgan Tsvangirai becoming prime minister.
    I was't going on about that civil war, I meant the imminent civil war in 08. Luckily it didn't become a civil war, they were on the brink, a bit like libya.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    And how do you expect a country to behave during decades of stalemate with its rival superpower? The West is practically the only reason the majority of the world is alive right now anyway, so quit your bleating. It is thanks to (in part) American support and pressure that the following countries are democratic:
    Germany
    Russia (at least partially)
    Italy
    Spain
    Austria
    Poland
    Czech Republic
    Slovakia
    Ukraine
    Serbia
    Croatia
    Latvia
    Uruguay
    Brazil
    Chile
    Mexico
    Japan

    Plus the other 70+ countries in the last quarter of a century that have become democracies, with help in part from America. 5 of which have been from a direct military intervention from the US. For somebody who is proud to be from a country who's only contribution to the world is terrorism and humans it can barely feed you sure are critical. I take it from your lack of replies in the other thread, because you lost, that you think Mo Mo should be hung drawn and quartered for his genocidal ways? How are you going to get into heaven with that attitude I wonder? :lol:
    No actually in the other thread I've already said that genocide is when you try and wipe out a race on purpose not when the people you kill just happen to be of a particular race. Some of the above I agree with but the others particularly the old Soviet satellites did not become democracies due to US help.

    Please explain: Why did the US overthrow over 50 democracies during the Cold War?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I take it from your lack of replies in the other thread, because you lost, that you think Mo Mo should be hung drawn and quartered for his genocidal ways? How are you going to get into heaven with that attitude I wonder? :lol:
    As said I've already replied, I usually stop when people keep repeating the same thing without reading my posts.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    As said I've already replied, I usually stop when people keep repeating the same thing without reading my posts.
    Or when you experience cognitive dissonance lol.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Or when you experience cognitive dissonance lol.
    Or not.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Or when you experience cognitive dissonance lol.
    Please do explain why the US has overthrown over 50 democracies and supported genocidal maniacs like Saddam and Pol Pot. Don't skirt around the topic this time.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    Please do explain why the US has overthrown over 50 democracies and supported genocidal maniacs like Saddam and Pol Pot. Don't skirt around the topic this time.
    Which 50 democracies would they be? I already explained that America isn't perfect, and i've never claimed them to be. They have to play the political hand they've been dealt or they would cease to exist.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Which 50 democracies would they be? I already explained that America isn't perfect, and i've never claimed them to be. They have to play the political hand they've been dealt or they would cease to exist.
    I completely agree. America would definitely have been wiped out if it hadn't overthrown the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED governments of the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Vietnam, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, Chile, Iran, Grenada, Afghanistan and many others. Oh and allow me to mention how it supported a murderous terrorist organisation to achieve its aims in Nicaragua, supported the Khmer Rouge who massacred most of their own intellectuals and condemned most of their population to starvation, turned Iran from democracy into an autocracy etc. etc.

    You clearly don't know anything about the topic so why pretend. You're one of the people who basically go US GOOD, ISLAM BAD :dunce: without actually knowing anything.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    I completely agree. America would definitely have been wiped out if it hadn't overthrown the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED governments of the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Vietnam, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, Chile, Iran, Grenada, Afghanistan and many others. Oh and allow me to mention how it supported a murderous terrorist organisation to achieve its aims in Nicaragua, supported the Khmer Rouge who massacred most of their own intellectuals and condemned most of their population to starvation, turned Iran from democracy into an autocracy etc. etc.

    You clearly don't know anything about the topic so why pretend. You're one of the people who basically go US GOOD, ISLAM BAD :dunce: without actually knowing anything.
    I already said they weren't perfect. My point is really ISLAM TOTALLY BAD NEVER DONE ANYTHING GOOD FOR THE WORLD, US AT LEAST DONE SOME GOOD IN THE WORLD. You claim to hate all of those places, but Islam contains within its pages a direct calling to theocracy and has spawned some of the worst regimes the world has ever seen. You complain about genocide then follow a prophet who committed it himself.
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    I don't think it's because they want to 'steal' Libya's oil
    I think they wanted to put a quicker end to the fighting between gaddafi and opposition because the uncertainty is what was driving oil PRICES up.
    They want the prices to stabilize... they didn't interfere in Egypt because the crisis was not as drawn out, the government capitulated early on.

    It's almost the same reason that they have supported gaddafi all these years. But diplomacy/ideals come into it now because they can't carry on supporting HIM because he's been shown to be A Bad Man, so they have to support the opposition. Either way, they just want to put a quick end to conflict by bombing them and showing them who's boss.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I already said they weren't perfect. My point is really ISLAM TOTALLY BAD NEVER DONE ANYTHING GOOD FOR THE WORLD, US AT LEAST DONE SOME GOOD IN THE WORLD. You claim to hate all of those places, but Islam contains within its pages a direct calling to theocracy and has spawned some of the worst regimes the world has ever seen. You complain about genocide then follow a prophet who committed it himself.
    See my post in the other thread, I've quoted you. Ludicrous ignorance.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    My point is really ISLAM TOTALLY BAD NEVER DONE ANYTHING GOOD FOR THE WORLD, US AT LEAST DONE SOME GOOD IN THE WORLD.
    If you think any of these is positive then it'll immediately refute your horrendously biased quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_reforms_under_Islam

    Would love to see a response and please give reasons if you disagree with all the stuff mentioned in that link.
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    (Original post by IGregg)
    Libya is behind the UK and the Netherlands in oil exports. Surely common sense tells you if they wanted oil they would go into Iran which produces pretty much twice as much?
    ^^ This
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    The quality of evidence in this thread is shocking. The fact that oil prices have risen in response to a political crisis in a oil-rich country - kind of inevitable - is supposed to be proof that AMerica is only in it for the oil?????

    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    If you think any of these is positive then it'll immediately refute your horrendously biased quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_reforms_under_Islam

    Would love to see a response and please give reasons if you disagree with all the stuff mentioned in that link.
    This is appallingly weak evidence. You've linked to minor social changes occuring between 610 and 661AD. Splitting Arabs into tribes and limiting the circumstances in which you can enslave other people, as in your link, are hardly hard-hitting pieces of evidence.
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    The quality of evidence in this thread is shocking. The fact that oil prices have risen in response to a political crisis in a oil-rich country - kind of inevitable - is supposed to be proof that AMerica is only in it for the oil?????



    This is appallingly weak evidence. You've linked to minor social changes occuring between 610 and 661AD. Splitting Arabs into tribes and limiting the circumstances in which you can enslave other people, as in your link, are hardly hard-hitting pieces of evidence.
    Doesn't matter the reforms were substantial and very positive and definitely refute his point that "IZLAM HAZN'T DONE ANYTHING GOOD!!1!"
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    If you think any of these is positive then it'll immediately refute your horrendously biased quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_reforms_under_Islam

    Would love to see a response and please give reasons if you disagree with all the stuff mentioned in that link.
    This of course totally negates the fact that these 'reforms' were not the start of something special - they were it. Islam has meant that these 'reforms' were the rules for time immemorial. So although the slightest bit progressive at the time they have entirely blocked further reform, and even driven some countries backwards.
 
 
 
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