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material breach
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#341
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#341
i will repeat again the fact that 3 times as many palestinian innocents have been killed than israeli innocents for those who missed it a few pages back, how can anyone criticise the palestinian approach because they do not have the resources to change the nature of the conflict, they have restorted to suciede bombers because they are desperate and it is the isrealis that have put them in that position by keeness to use miltiary force.
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ThornsnRoses
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#342
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#342
(Original post by thefish_uk)
Erm, I thought Eternal Idol was on your side. Are you here to take a side or here just to throw petrol on the debate to make it worse?
sarcasm
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Jonatan
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#343
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#343
(Original post by thefish_uk)
Yeah.

So if you remove the terrorists from the Palestinians and throw them to one side, does that mean we can say that both the Israelis and Palestinians want peace right now?
Yep. Problem is the terrorists, and as long as the PLO and Arafat refuse to deal with them, nothings going to get better. Israel has offered to draw back the occupation, to give economical support to the refugees, and to acknowledge a palestinian state. But Arafat and his party refuse to do anything but giving lose promises which they never fulfill.
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ThornsnRoses
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#344
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#344
(Original post by thefish_uk)
No I'm not. Now your argument is actually beginning to fall apart.

I don't see how the creation of Israel can be seen as a holocaust. No killing (if you're going to dispute that we can say there was no huge innocent loss of life). No genocide.

Anti-semitism was causing trouble all over the world at the time, or at least Europe. Look at how Britain accepts so many asylum seekers. Do you agree with that? Do you agree that the Palestinians should have accepted the Jews as refugees (like Britain accepts other groups as refugees) rather than having them set up their own state?
No...but jews didn’t come to live in Palestine under a Palestinian authority they came to replace it with an Israeli one. And how can you not classify the annihilation of the Palestinians over the last 80 years not as a genocide...it is the tragedy of the second half of the 20th century, particularly after all the peace treaties that have been signed and the peaceful promises made after WWII. The most tragic outcome of this whole issue is the fact that the Jewish hypocrites who have made billions exploiting the Holocaust are the same the ones responsible for these crimes!
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Jonatan
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#345
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#345
(Original post by Speciez99)
i will repeat again the fact that 3 times as many palestinian innocents have been killed than israeli innocents for those who missed it a few pages back, how can anyone criticise the palestinian approach because they do not have the resources to change the nature of the conflict, they have restorted to suciede bombers because they are desperate and it is the isrealis that have put them in that position by keeness to use miltiary force.
We do not criticise the palestinian government because they cannot perform miracles. We criticize the palestinian government because they do not even try do do anything whatsoever. So far, all they have come up with is lose promises. The PLO still hasnt removed the destruction of Israel from their official agenda. When they broadcast television comercials promoting suecide bombings, it is not strange the Israelis do not trust them when they say they condem all terrorism. It doesnt matter how poor the palestinian PEOPLE happen to be, if the palestinian GOVERNMENT, refuse to obandon terrorism and the goal of the destruction of Israel, its not much Israel can do but to defend themselves best they can. Meanwhile, given the large amounts of support Europeann countries send to the palestinian government, why is it that the terrorist groups like Hamaz run close to a majority of Hospitals and Schools? Perhaps if Arafat opened that fat Swiss bank account the palestinians would not be so poor that the terrorist groups could take advantage of them as suecide bimbers ?

Btw: Not very long ago two BRITISH residents blew themselves up in a suecide bombings. So much for your "poor desperate people with no other purpose in life" theory.
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ThornsnRoses
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#346
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#346
(Original post by foolfarian)
Say that again, I don't understand what you mean
I've never been up your ass, but I know that you speak out of it at times.
J
That is so arrogant Foolfarian...English may be your fiist language but its not Eternal Idols...you dont have to be so rude. Try learning Spanish or talking to him in his native tongue and let see who comes out making sense then.
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material breach
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#347
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#347
(Original post by Jonatan)
You will not find a single terrorist leader beleiveing he works for the good of the palestinian people. These groups base their activities on taking advantages of poor peoples desperate positions. They are not trying to help the palestinians, they try to gain power by causing fear among others.
er i disagree strongly with that, why does Hamas hand out food to the palestinians? for kicks and giggles :rolleyes:
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ThornsnRoses
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#348
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#348
(Original post by Jonatan)
We do not criticise the palestinian government because they cannot perform miracles. We criticize the palestinian government because they do not even try do do anything whatsoever. So far, all they have come up with is lose promises. The PLO still hasnt removed the destruction of Israel from their official agenda. When they broadcast television comercials promoting suecide bombings, it is not strange the Israelis do not trust them when they say they condem all terrorism. It doesnt matter how poor the palestinian PEOPLE happen to be, if the palestinian GOVERNMENT, refuse to obandon terrorism and the goal of the destruction of Israel, its not much Israel can do but to defend themselves best they can. Meanwhile, given the large amounts of support Europeann countries send to the palestinian government, why is it that the terrorist groups like Hamaz run close to a majority of Hospitals and Schools? Perhaps if Arafat opened that fat Swiss bank account the palestinians would not be so poor that the terrorist groups could take advantage of them as suecide bimbers ?

Btw: Not very long ago two BRITISH residents blew themselves up in a suecide bombings. So much for your "poor desperate people with no other purpose in life" theory.

BULL! Israel can't even keep a grip of its army!
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Jonatan
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#349
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#349
(Original post by ThornsnRoses)
No...but jews didn’t come to live in Palestine under a Palestinian authority they came to replace it with an Israeli one. And how can you not classify the annihilation of the Palestinians over the last 80 years not as a genocide...it is the tragedy of the second half of the 20th century, particularly after all the peace treaties that have been signed and the peaceful promises made after WWII. The most tragic outcome of this whole issue is the fact that the Jewish hypocrites who have made billions exploiting the Holocaust are the same the ones responsible for these crimes!
First of all, their was no Palestinian authority in palestine when the Jews started to move there. The area was under a BRITISH mandate.
Second: Israel has not had as a goal to annihilate the palestinians nor have they tried to do so. That is pure and utter bull****. Just take a look at Israels huge palestinian populations. Most of them say they would not hesitate a second to chose Israel in front of any Arab regime if they got to decide where they wanted to live. Furthermore, you can hardly call the 1973 Yom Kippur war an Israeli atempt to annihilate palestinians as it was the Arab states who launched a surprise atack on Israel at the most holy day in the Jewish calender. Furthermore, the palestinian government run by Arafat has not done **** to promote the peace process. Today, their agenda is still a direct copy of what it was in 1967, stating the destruction of Israel and Israeli culture as one of their main goals.
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material breach
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#350
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#350
(Original post by 'Jonatan)
We do not criticise the palestinian government because they cannot perform miracles. We criticize the palestinian government because they do not even try do do anything whatsoever. So far, all they have come up with is lose promises. The PLO still hasnt removed the destruction of Israel from their official agenda. When they broadcast television comercials promoting suecide bombings, it is not strange the Israelis do not trust them when they say they condem all terrorism. It doesnt matter how poor the palestinian PEOPLE happen to be, if the palestinian GOVERNMENT, refuse to obandon terrorism and the goal of the destruction of Israel, its not much Israel can do but to defend themselves best they can. Meanwhile, given the large amounts of support Europeann countries send to the palestinian government, why is it that the terrorist groups like Hamaz run close to a majority of Hospitals and Schools? Perhaps if Arafat opened that fat Swiss bank account the palestinians would not be so poor that the terrorist groups could take advantage of them as suecide bimbers ?

Btw: Not very long ago two BRITISH residents blew themselves up in a suecide bombings. So much for your "poor desperate people with no other purpose in life" theory.
how can arafat do anything when he is stuck in his compound surrounded by illegally parked isreali tanks? and all the phone lines have been cut? the terrorism isnt state sponsered by the way? if you think it is please give so reliable evidence it is
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ThornsnRoses
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#351
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#351
(Original post by Jonatan)
First of all, their was no Palestinian authority in palestine when the Jews started to move there. The area was under a BRITISH mandate.
Second: Israel has not had as a goal to annihilate the palestinians nor have they tried to do so. That is pure and utter bull****. Just take a look at Israels huge palestinian populations. Most of them say they would not hesitate a second to chose Israel in front of any Arab regime if they got to decide where they wanted to live. Furthermore, you can hardly call the 1973 Yom Kippur war an Israeli atempt to annihilate palestinians as it was the Arab states who launched a surprise atack on Israel at the most holy day in the Jewish calender. Furthermore, the palestinian government run by Arafat has not done **** to promote the peace process. Today, their agenda is still a direct copy of what it was in 1967, stating the destruction of Israel and Israeli culture as one of their main goals.
THATS UTTER RUBBISH...THE ISRAELIS ARE THE AGRESSORS AND YOU KNOW IT. THEY AIM TO KILL!!

RIP TOM HURNDALL!!!
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Jonatan
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#352
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#352
(Original post by Speciez99)
er i disagree strongly with that, why does Hamas hand out food to the palestinians? for kicks and giggles :rolleyes:
It gives them support, doesnt it ?

Why do you think they base their operations from refugee camps? In order to protect the civilian population? Heard the expression human shields ? Hamaz takes advantage of the fact that Arafat and his government doesnt do **** for the palestinian population. They make themselves look like saviours by running Schools and Hospitals (Which of course is not a bad thing), and then they abbuse this reputation in order to persuade people to blow themselves up killing scores of Israelis.
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material breach
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#353
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#353
(Original post by ThornsnRoses)
THATS UTTER RUBBISH...THE ISRAELIS ARE THE AGRESSORS AND YOU KNOW IT. THEY AIM TO KILL!!

RIP TOM HURNDALL!!!
*ducks to avoid shouting*
wow
i think hes wrong as well, but i dont think thats gonna convice him and i dont think u will convice ever no matter what evidence u had so i guess ur shouting policy might be the best....
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Jonatan
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#354
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#354
(Original post by Speciez99)
how can arafat do anything when he is stuck in his compound surrounded by illegally parked isreali tanks? and all the phone lines have been cut? the terrorism isnt state sponsered by the way? if you think it is please give so reliable evidence it is
Arafat has not been locked in his compound the entire 60 years he has been in office. On the contrary he has speant his time ignoring the troubles of terrorism. What you are saying is that because Israel locked Arafat in his compound for a month or two, that automaticly takes away all his responisbilities during the last 60 years. Btw, he has been free to move around for quite a time now. Has he done anything? Nope!

When it comes to state sponsored terrorism or not, we can start with the fact that the government doesnt try to stop the terror. Add on that they brodacast comercials promoting suecide bombings, that some hundred kilos of artificial fertiliser, plastic explosives, nitric acid etc was found in the palestinian headquarters (As this seems to critisize the palestinian government, it is all Israeli propaganda of course).

Btw: Did you know that Israel once offered to repair, and mordenise a large number of Palestinian refugee camps, without demanding anything in return whatsoever? This occured after criticism against israel because palestinians had poor living conditions. However, when Israel said they were willing to do this, the united nations and the plo refused them to do so , because as they said it "It provides a permanent solution to the refugee proplem, and thus undermines the case of the palestinian people". Or put in other words: We want these people to remain poor, because then we can critisize Israel because of it!
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material breach
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#355
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#355
(Original post by Jonatan)
It gives them support, doesnt it ?

Why do you think they base their operations from refugee camps? In order to protect the civilian population? Heard the expression human shields ? Hamaz takes advantage of the fact that Arafat and his government doesnt do **** for the palestinian population. They make themselves look like saviours by running Schools and Hospitals (Which of course is not a bad thing), and then they abbuse this reputation in order to persuade people to blow themselves up killing scores of Israelis
.

(Original post by Jonatan)
you will not find a single terrorist leader beleiveing he works for the good of the palestinian people. These groups base their activities on taking advantages of poor peoples desperate positions. They are not trying to help the palestinians, they try to gain power by causing fear among others.
there seems to be a contradiction there, terrorist dont do anything for the people yet u admit they run schools and hospitals which u say is good.

mate sort you view out and give only one view rather than adapting the facts to fit u arguements which seems to be made of pieces that dont fit togeather
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Jonatan
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#356
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#356
(Original post by Speciez99)
*ducks to avoid shouting*
wow
i think hes wrong as well, but i dont think thats gonna convice him and i dont think u will convice ever no matter what evidence u had so i guess ur shouting policy might be the best....
A debate is not about convincing your counterpart you are right, its about presenting your argument to other people who follow the debate. Of course you will not convince me , and I will not convince you. But our discussion may be a basis from which other people can form their own opinion. This is why it is completely useless to shout out unbacked and unjustified claims. We all know what this guy thinks about the situation, that he shouts it out a few hundered times is not going to change that.
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Elle
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#357
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This is an impressive thread, but I still don't doubt that the Israelis are in the wrong here- I know this is a complicated issue but the problem will never be solved as long as America continues to turn a blind eye to Israel and the crimes it commits.
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Jonatan
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#358
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#358
(Original post by Speciez99)
.



there seems to be a contradiction there, terrorist dont do anything for the people yet u admit they run schools and hospitals which u say is good.

mate sort you view out and give only one view rather than adapting the facts to fit u arguements which seems to be made of pieces that dont fit togeather
Actually I said they do not do what they do because they want to help the palestinian population. They do obviously help the population in the sense that they are running hospitals etc. The motives for doing so is nt neccessarily as noble as it may seem. As I have said previously, I do not mind independent orginisations building hospitals and schools. It is when they abuse these hospitals and schools in order to persuade people into becoming terrorists that I have a problem with them. You may disagree with me here, but I strongly beleive that Hamaz building schools is quite a strong reason why palestinian school books are stuffed with antiisraeli propaganda.
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SickPuppy
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#359
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#359
Hello there everyone.

My name is Itzik and I have 32 years. I just wanted to reply all of you for two reasons.

1) I need to improve (make better) my English
2) This is a interesting subject

Let me explain about myself. I am originally from Thailand. At the age of 27 I went to live in Israel. I have lived there now for 5 years. Many of my friends are from foreign countries (only a few are Jewish).
The Israeli Government lets more immigrants into Israel than almost any country in the world. Every Jew has a right to live in Israel but not every non-Jew. I write this to correct the argument someone made that every non Jew is not accepted. I love living in Israel - it is my home.

Because i Live there and can now speak fluent Hebrew and Arabic, I see a lot of what is going on in a different light to you. Christians and Muslims all have the same rights as Jews. They are treated fantasticaly (spelling?).

My best friend was at the scene of the terrorist attack in Jerusalem this morning which killed 10 innocent Israelis on their way to work. His job was to pick up body parts of those killed so they can have a burial. Israel as a country, and Judaism as a religion, care so much about life and dignity.
I have been to the West Bank. I have been to Gaza. It is not like you see on the television screens. How many of you have been? Do any of you live there?

Without wanting to make offence to you all, reading your wrtitings (except vienna, gems) is like reading a comedy script except in a comedy script the people are funny on purpose.

Anyway its 10:30 here so I'm going to go to bed.

Lehitraot (goodbye)
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JSM
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#360
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#360
(Original post by SickPuppy)
Hello there everyone.

My name is Itzik and I have 32 years. I just wanted to reply all of you for two reasons.

1) I need to improve (make better) my English
2) This is a interesting subject

Let me explain about myself. I am originally from Thailand. At the age of 27 I went to live in Israel. I have lived there now for 5 years. Many of my friends are from foreign countries (only a few are Jewish).
The Israeli Government lets more immigrants into Israel than almost any country in the world. Every Jew has a right to live in Israel but not every non-Jew. I write this to correct the argument someone made that every non Jew is not accepted. I love living in Israel - it is my home.

Because i Live there and can now speak fluent Hebrew and Arabic, I see a lot of what is going on in a different light to you. Christians and Muslims all have the same rights as Jews. They are treated fantasticaly (spelling?).

My best friend was at the scene of the terrorist attack in Jerusalem this morning which killed 10 innocent Israelis on their way to work. His job was to pick up body parts of those killed so they can have a burial. Israel as a country, and Judaism as a religion, care so much about life and dignity.
I have been to the West Bank. I have been to Gaza. It is not like you see on the television screens. How many of you have been? Do any of you live there?

Without wanting to make offence to you all, reading your wrtitings (except vienna, gems) is like reading a comedy script except in a comedy script the people are funny on purpose.

Anyway its 10:30 here so I'm going to go to bed.

Lehitraot (goodbye)

sick puppy, i wonder if thats an apt name. So muslims really have the same rights as jews, to be cut off from their families by a concentration camp like fence. One which separates farmers from their land, solely in order for the ISraeli government to be seen doing somehting
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