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GH
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#21
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#21
(Original post by vienna95)
Israel is alone in that region.
Mormons?
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icarusgideon
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#22
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#22
(Original post by gemgems89)
What saddens me is that there's so many anti-Israel people out there and don't go about open minded looking at both sides of the story. I've tried looking at both, and I can clearly see that Israel wants peace. No more to be said.
12000 palestinians made homeless in the last 12 months. Israel is in breach of 61 united nations resolutions. Sharon has been involved in fraud cases with his son ( i can remember 3 that happened last 5 months). Sharon was being prosecuted by belgian courts for the genocide of 1.2 million lebanons in 1982, until Mossad (the israeli KGB) killed the prosecution witness.

Whereas Arafat has been given nobel prize for his efforts to restore peace. He is under house arrest for over 3 years now, and the israelli government has tried to poison him, refused him medical care (in arab hosp.), wants to kill him. Yet Arafat has the support from Nelson Mandela one of the greatest leaders ever lived.

There are many things that are bull**** in readme's statement, but i won't comment on them cuz i am not bothered to read those islamophobic propaganda.
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ben2111
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#23
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#23
(Original post by icarusgideon)
12000 palestinians made homeless in the last 12 months. Israel is in breach of 61 united nations resolutions. Sharon has been involved in fraud cases with his son ( i can remember 3 that happened last 5 months). Sharon was being prosecuted by belgian courts for the genocide of 1.2 million lebanons in 1982, until Mossad (the israeli KGB) killed the prosecution witness.

Whereas Arafat has been given nobel prize for his efforts to restore peace. He is under house arrest for over 3 years now, and the israelli government has tried to poison him, refused him medical care (in arab hosp.), wants to kill him. Yet Arafat has the support from Nelson Mandela one of the greatest leaders ever lived.

There are many things that are bull**** in readme's statement, but i won't comment on them cuz i am not bothered to read those islamophobic propaganda.
Thanks icarus! Brillant sum-up. But I am also sure Israel wants peace, that is the reason for building settlements in Palestinian areas. Not to provoke them.

You quote Mandela, know what a member called "Howard" said in our last discussion? "Mandela was a terrorist", explained that with some of the sabotage done in SA of the apartheid times...
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ben2111
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#24
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#24
(Original post by vienna95)
linked in a peace-loving society with a civilisation that wants the right to exist and does not want to wipe their neighbours off the face of the earth. on that point, Israel is alone in that region.
Look at a map and dont post such bs. Israel still occupies the Golan hills without any legitimation, parts of the southern Libanon, not even mentioning palestine.
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icarusgideon
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#25
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#25
(Original post by ben2111)
Thanks icarus! Brillant sum-up. But I am also sure Israel wants peace, that is the reason for building settlements in Palestinian areas. Not to provoke them.

You quote Mandela, know what a member called "Howard" said in our last discussion? "Mandela was a terrorist", explained that with some of the sabotage done in SA of the apartheid times...

Ooh Tatcher's bull**** again. I thought that was out of date? yea, but then the tories ARE out of date.........I remember watching an interview of the great man, where he recalled the meeting her at buckingham palace for the first time. He said that she was sort of gobsmacked and a bit lost! (imagine that!!)....so he told her to 'forgive and forget' about it. He also said that since that akward moment, they had had many arguments and stuff.......

On the issue of Israel. The people of Israel I am sure do want peace but I doubt that they will get it with this government. The circle of hatred between the two sides will go on and on, both the Palestinian militants (Hisbollah, Hamas) and the americans (=israeli govern) have sidelined Arafat and there is absolutely nothing the man can do, under the conditions he is in.
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llama boy
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#26
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#26
(Original post by vienna95)
linked in a peace-loving society with a civilisation that wants the right to exist and does not want to wipe their neighbours off the face of the earth. on that point, Israel is alone in that region.
So much hate.

Course, it would be easy to argue that the Israel faction calling for the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians is much bigger than the Palestinian faction calling for the ethnic cleansing of the Israelis.

Also, it could be pointed out that even the most extreme of the Palestinian groups, Hamas etc, have openly stated that an end to the occupation and a return to 1967 borders (that'll be 22% of historic Palestine) would be enough to secure a complete ceasefire. And that there have been numerous ceasefires in the past, even when what was on offer was blatantly not just.

But, frankly, I'm not going to because you're not going to be interested. Very much the same sort of thing as with the first poster.

Sad.

(ps - you seem to be intent on turning this into another winding, fruitless tit-for-tat 5 page debate. sorry, but this time i'm not going oblige. bye...)
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ThornsnRoses
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#27
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#27
(Original post by ReadMe)
I'm only going to post once on this forum, so listen up.

I'm SICK and TIRED of people even having to ask each other's opinions on the Israeli/Palestinian issue - it should be obvious to all right-thinking people.

Let me introduce a few DEBATABLE home truths to you all:

Israel gave the Palestinians official chances to negotiate in 1993, 1996, 2000 and 2001 as well as unofficial talks in between all of these periods. The Palestinians were offered 97.3% of the West Bank and Gaza Strip with the remaining 2.7% used as a no-man land. The Palestinians have repeatedly refused these offers.
And you didn’t consider what the conditions were!

(Original post by ReadMe)
Arafat is a terrorist and has been proven to authorise and finance suicide bombings against innocent Israelis. Israel is a democracy and you have to understand that the only ways to respond to terrorism are to negotiate and take security measures. The former has shown no sign of working (just encourages Arafat) and the latter gets Israel into trouble with hypocritical nations worldwide like Britain and America (who killed 7,000 innocent people in Afghanistan alone) A security wall is necessary to keep out terrorists.
You seem to go by the fact that Arafat is considered a terrorist by Israelis. And in fact he is the elected leader to and of the Palestinians and represents freedom and their just fight for justice. Considering this you fail to acknowledge that in fact Sharon is considered a terrorist among the west and Arabs, and had been awaiting trial in the Belgian Courts for the 1982 Sabre and Chatila massacres that took place in Beirut (there is an interesting book about the war in Lebanon by Robert Fisk)

(Original post by ReadMe)
Although it is not all finished yet, there has never been a case of an area being targeted where there was a wall. It is not to fence Palestinians in, rather to protect Israelis. Why can’t any of you realise this? It's disgusting. You people really make me sick. Israel has been the best friend any democratic and peaceful country could want.
This wall is claimed to have been built by the Israel to 'protect Israelis'. But what in reality it is doing is stopping the influx of thousands of Palestinians who need to go into Israel to work and earn their living. If you think of it, this wall is stimulating and provoking terrorism. Let me explain it simply. Wall => no work for Palestinians =>no money => therefore they see no choice but to resort to fanaticism, religious extremism and aggressive nationalism. This unfortunate result is what Israel claims to be avoiding!........
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ThornsnRoses
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#28
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#28
......
(Original post by ReadMe)
In 1948 (when Israel was formed) there were 850,000 Jews living in Arab countries. The were expelled and persecuted and forced to leave their homes and go to Israel. There are now only 7,000 left and they live in persecution (ie. synagogue bomb in Turkey last month, in Tunisia last year) HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE FOR EVERYONE TO REALISE THAT JEWS AND ISRAELIS ARE PEACEFUL PEOPLE WHO ARE SICK TO DEATH OF LIVING IN FEAR OF ANTISEMITISM AND PEOPLE TELLING THEM HOW TO RUN THE ONE COUNTRY THAT THEY OWN AFTER HAVING FLED TO AVOID THE DEATHS OF 6 MILLION? Why does no one ask any questions about the 850,000 displaced Jews who are now housed in Israel when the 700,000 Arabs who left Israel in 1948 (as they were told to leave by the advancing Arab countries as they could move back in when the Israelis had been killed) are used as negotiating tools for future 'peace' agreements?
In 1948 Palestinians were forcibly expelled from their homes. In fact it is widely known that many Arabic countries tried to stop Jews from migrating to Israel and did not, as popularly believed, persecute the indigenous Jewish population.

Secondly, you give the example of the synagogue bombings in Tunisia last year and the one in Tunisia, last month...well to that I can only reply with a couple of words Goldstein and the mosque killings of 1994, Israelis raiding of southern Lebanon etc. and now judge how truly 'peace-loving' they are.

(Original post by ReadMe)
Why won't any Arab countries recognise Israel's existence?
You are wrong there boyo...two years ago in the Arab League Summit held in Beirut the Arabs signed an agreement to recognise the existence of Israel and extended a hand to them. They were rebuffed. Sharon also turned down an invitation by the King of Jordan for peace talks in the same year.

(Original post by ReadMe)
Why do countries such as Britain and USA bomb kill and attack their enemies like Saddam and Bin Laden when they expect Israel to negotiate with terrorists of exactly the same ilk? All Israel wants is to live in peace. Can you imagine what its like for a country never to have had peace since 1948 when it was founded?
As you said in your previous paragraph hypocrites such as America...you kind of hit the needle on the head there...so why ask again here?
If Israel was founded through war then it must fight to live on...its fate is war. Funnily, can I imagine a country, not to have had peace since its founding...? Kashmir hasn’t had peace since Pakistan was founded around the same time as Israel and many neighbouring countries share the same bloody plight....
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ThornsnRoses
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#29
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#29
(Original post by ReadMe)
If Palestinians want the West Bank and Gaza Strip so much why didn’t they rebel pre-1948 when Egypt and Jordan owned it? BECAUSE THIS IS A RACIST WAR AGAINST THE JEWS, THAT'S WHY. No one else matters to them.
The West Bank and the Gaza Strip were governed by Egypt and Jordan...it comes as news to me! Palestine was ruled by British mandate...and the Palestinians did in fact revolt against Britain during WWII under the Mufti of Jerusalem.

(Original post by ReadMe)
If they really are Palestinians (i.e. want back the land of Palestine) why don't they march into Jordan and take it? It's a fact that over 70% of biblical Palestine (where they claim their ancestors came from) is modern day Jordan. Why doesn’t any Arab state help them financially? The only Arab states to have funded Palestinians are Iraq which gave $25,000 to the family of each suicide bomber and Saudi Arabia which raised $37m in a television appeal for Hamas.
Why can't Palestinians march into Israel and reclaim their land? Jordan is a sovereign state! Arabic states dont help financially because they are prohibited by the US. And to criticize Iraq for giving, up to $25,000 to each family of a suicide bomber seems rather hypocritical since you’ve just interrogated the Arabic position on not helping the Palestinians. Your statistics on Saudi Arabia raising $37m in a TV appeal seem to be flawed…how can we trust them?...
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Vienna
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#30
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#30
(Original post by icarusgideon)
12000 palestinians made homeless in the last 12 months.
hardly comparable to the holocaust and other such claims.

Israel is in breach of 61 united nations resolutions. Sharon has been involved in fraud cases with his son ( i can remember 3 that happened last 5 months). Sharon was being prosecuted by belgian courts for the genocide of 1.2 million lebanons in 1982, until Mossad (the israeli KGB) killed the prosecution witness.
whats the relevance?

Whereas Arafat has been given nobel prize for his efforts to restore peace.
haha. absolutely hilarious. Arafat is a terrorist and everyone knows it. do you actually read anything in politics or is this just out of a Newsweek centre-page spread?

He is under house arrest for over 3 years now, and the israelli government has tried to poison him, refused him medical care (in arab hosp.), wants to kill him. Yet Arafat has the support from Nelson Mandela one of the greatest leaders ever lived.
who is a racist and actually knows nothing about the situation.

these arguments are doing yours more damage than good! hehe

There are many things that are bull**** in readme's statement, but i won't comment on them cuz i am not bothered to read those islamophobic propaganda.
islamophobic propaganda! haha, it is really a shame when the debate is lowered to this completely moronic level, i respect ur opinion, but quite frankly it is one of the most uneducated ones i have ever heard.
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Vienna
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#31
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#31
(Original post by ben2111)
Look at a map and dont post such bs. Israel still occupies the Golan hills without any legitimation, parts of the southern Libanon, not even mentioning palestine.
any relevance to my post? what has a map go to do with anything?
you should be all for Sharons unilateral proposals then?
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Vienna
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#32
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#32
(Original post by ThornsnRoses)
The West Bank and the Gaza Strip were governed by Egypt and Jordan...it comes as news to me!
and that speaks volumes.


Why can't Palestinians march into Israel and reclaim their land? Jordan is a sovereign state! Arabic states dont help financially because they are prohibited by the US.
[/QUOTE]

prohibited?
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Joey_Johns
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#33
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#33
(Original post by vienna95)
one of the most uneducated ones i have ever heard.
So, the England Rugby team still didn’t deserve to be honoured for winning the world cup? With your extensive knowledge of rugby I eagerly anticipate your conversant answer...
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Vienna
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#34
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#34
(Original post by ThornsnRoses)
......
If Israel was founded through war then it must fight to live on...its fate is war.
generally sums the palestinian point of view up.
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ThornsnRoses
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#35
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#35
(Original post by vienna95)
and that speaks volumes.


Why can't Palestinians march into Israel and reclaim their land? Jordan is a sovereign state! Arabic states dont help financially because they are prohibited by the US.



well my argument holds more weight than yours...so...whatever!
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ThornsnRoses
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#36
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#36
(Original post by vienna95)
generally sums the palestinian point of view up.
and not the Israeli one?
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Vienna
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
So, the England Rugby team still didn’t deserve to be honoured for winning the world cup? With your extensive knowledge of rugby I eagerly anticipate your conversant answer...
u r mad or on the wrong thread.
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Joey_Johns
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#38
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#38
(Original post by vienna95)
u r mad or on the wrong thread.
I was just proving a point. I think you know that.
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ThornsnRoses
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#39
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#39
(Original post by vienna95)
u r mad or on the wrong thread.
Joey Johns is funny and on the wrong thread!
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Vienna
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#40
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#40
(Original post by ThornsnRoses)
well my argument holds more weight than yours...so...whatever!
hmm...convincing..
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