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adelz
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#1161
Report 16 years ago
#1161
(Original post by kildare)
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Education/stats1.html

Income ($, adjusted for inflation) (1 US$=4.5 NIS)

Average net income per household
1987 1995 2002
1,630 1,956 2,178

Average monthly wage
1987 1995 2002
1,142 1,304 1,462

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp_cap

GDP per Capita: Israel $20,233.75 per person


Someone told you wrong.
Thats more like it. Someone really must have told Gems wrong, as earlier on she was saying that she though that Palestine was all rich .. Israel is a very rich & developed country and people have a relatively high standard of life there.
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adelz
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#1162
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#1162
(Original post by thefish_uk)
Sorry,

I'm just saying that if the Israeli authorities heard of a school trip from a Western country to Israel they'd see it as a huge chance to see things work in their favour, wouldn't they?

Especially people who are from a single-faith school. You're the people who are going to be fighting for Israel back home in this argument, they think. Some of you people might even be planning on making aliyah (moving to Israel - they even have a term for it).

So obviously, the Israeli authorities would want you to see Israel as being caring and safe and the opposite of what the Western media say. They know just how vunerable to this kind of propaganda children are and how easily they can be twisted to say what they want.

So there is a chance they would have planned it to give the image of Israel that they want you to see. Imagine you're writing an itinerary for some tourists coming to the UK, for example. Think of the different ways you could influence their thoughts of us by choosing what they get to see. You can easily manipulate what gets put in front of them to promote the image you want.

The fact that your visit was through school shows that an element of careful planning already went into it. The school can get their asses sued off if they bring you within a mile of anything dangerous. If there was any major element of risk the trip would have been stopped. And because trouble in Israel is localised rather than all over, this trouble can be avoided so you only go to safe places, so obviously you think it's safe.

Governments will go to great lengths to indoctrinate. I'm just asking you to see it from a point of view where you question what they put in front of you. Why was it put in front of you? What impression does it give of Israel? Don't you think that's the impression they'd be trying to promote?

I meant to write more but I've been distracted enough as it is.
I agree....
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thefish_uk
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#1163
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#1163
(Original post by adelz)
I agree....
Yeah well I think I took my worrying about propaganda and indoctrination over the top.

All that matters is that yes, of course the school trip would have only been taken to safe parts and the safety and security of those parts are not representitive of the rest of Israel.
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ddan
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#1164
Report 16 years ago
#1164
(Original post by thefish_uk)
Yeah well I think I took my worrying about propaganda and indoctrination over the top.

All that matters is that yes, of course the school trip would have only been taken to safe parts and the safety and security of those parts are not representitive of the rest of Israel.
yea i hav just *** bac from israel on a school trip and it ws so safe they only took us 2 safe places they wont take us wehere any danger is and when u r i israel u dont really think about it being dangereous it os not like it is on the news b cause that only shows the suicide bombers it was so safe and i wasnt even scared of suicide bombers or anything
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adelz
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#1165
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#1165
(Original post by ddan)
yea i hav just *** bac from israel on a school trip and it ws so safe they only took us 2 safe places they wont take us wehere any danger is and when u r i israel u dont really think about it being dangereous it os not like it is on the news b cause that only shows the suicide bombers it was so safe and i wasnt even scared of suicide bombers or anything
thats good.. how was it ? what did you see ?
http://www.middleastern.tk
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idf_army_man
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#1166
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#1166
whilst browsing the net i came across this interesting discussion.

the views you have of the israeli army is just plain wrong.

the bias that you receive in this country is in favour of the palestinitans, mainly due to the fact that AP(associated press) is basically a majority of muslim owned publishing houses.

you, in this country only hear about the odd attack. there are hundreds of attacks every week, by palestinians. while most are foiled, leading to the deaths of the perpetrators, unfortunately, some do get thru. i saw someone quote that 3 times as many palestinians had died as opposed to israelis.....the israeli victims however were people on there way to work on a bus, or standing in a shopping mall, or sitting down to eat in a hotel........the palestinian deaths however, are made up of bombers, shooters, and organizers of death and destruction and murder. yes no one is denying that innocent people have been killed by accident, but that figure is a lot lower than the israeli figure of people murdered willfully by terrorists.

i served in the israeli army. i was there and i have seen how we as an army behave. we are wothout a doubt THE MOST MORAL AND ETHICAL ARMY IN THE WORLD. we have whole divisions of medics, who are under orders to treat ANY injured party whether they be arab or israeli. we have orders not to shoot any unarmed party. we have orders to not shoot unless fired upon. when an israeli soldier raises his gun to shoot, he must be certain that his life is in danger. it is not good enough to shoot wildly into the crowd, your TARGET MUST BE PICKED so as not to endanger anyone else.

the palestinans have no such rules.

did you know that the largest palestinian childrens charity in the middle east is an israeli one.


we want peace......we want to work in peace and live in peace, and if the roles were reversed in the middle east, there would be no problems.

oh and the palestinian motto is: from the river(jordan) to the sea, will all belong to us(palestinian)......they want nothing less than the entire destruction of the state of israel, and the terrorist MURDERS will continue.
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Bigcnee
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#1167
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#1167
Your position is one of complete strength in comparison to the Palestinians. They have no recognised state (and that Road Map was degrading b*******). Many live in poverty, and their army consists of stones and people that are willing to strap bombs to themselves and die for what they believe in.

Can you say this about the Israeli people? No.
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Bigcnee
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#1168
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#1168
(Original post by idf_army_man)
if the roles were reversed in the middle east, there would be no problems.
Absolute crap.
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Howard
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#1169
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#1169
(Original post by Bigcnee)
Your position is one of complete strength in comparison to the Palestinians. They have no recognised state (and that Road Map was degrading b*******). Many live in poverty, and their army consists of stones and people that are willing to strap bombs to themselves and die for what they believe in.

Can you say this about the Israeli people? No.
I don't have a problem with people strapping bombs to themselves and picking a hard target to make their point. I do have a problem with folks that will walk into a coffee house and detonate those bombs.

If someone is willing to die for what they believe in, all strength to them. However, I have little sympathy if that same person couldn't give a **** about killing and maiming kids enjoying a strawberry thick shake in his bid to die for what he believes in.
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idf_army_man
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#1170
Report 15 years ago
#1170
really little boy, you must grow up and not swear at people.

alot of west bank land was leagally bought from the registered owners, for example gilo. the mayor of gilo sold the land to the israeli government for around 3 million dollars(todays value around 40 million). now this is an area being given back FREE OF CHARGE in the outline of the westbank handover.

NOWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD WOULD THIS HAPPEN


you claim that the palestinians are living in poverty.......

THEY ARE KEPT IN THAT POSITION BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE.....the PLO had over 5.2 billion dollars in their coffers back in 1947, they sank it not into guns and arms, but into publishing houses and news agencys....hence the bias in todays media. FACT

MURDER CAN NEVER BE JUSTIFIED

NO ONE is EVER justified in strapping a bomb to themselves and murdering innocent civilians in wanton acts of terrorism.

and you are wrong in ASSUMING that they dont have the money to buy guns....they do and they have huge stockpiles of arms, supplied to them by the iraqis....saddam hussien himself had a program smuggling troops thru jordan into the west bank, to help with the training of the terrorists. syria had and i believe still homes the islamic jihad, and hezbullah training camps that brainwash young(10-17 yearolds) children, into believing its "the right thing to do", to DIE whilst killing innocent civilians........FACT


and i see you neatly avoided all the other points i brought up.....


go there, LIVE there, SEE the truth with your OWN eyes.....and stop propagating lies , of which you know NOTHING except what you are TOLD.

as i said, ive been there and served there.
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Bigcnee
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#1171
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#1171
(Original post by idf_army_man)
really little boy, you must grow up and not swear at people.

alot of west bank land was leagally bought from the registered owners, for example gilo. the mayor of gilo sold the land to the israeli government for around 3 million dollars(todays value around 40 million). now this is an area being given back FREE OF CHARGE in the outline of the westbank handover.

NOWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD WOULD THIS HAPPEN


you claim that the palestinians are living in poverty.......

THEY ARE KEPT IN THAT POSITION BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE.....the PLO had over 5.2 billion dollars in their coffers back in 1947, they sank it not into guns and arms, but into publishing houses and news agencys....hence the bias in todays media. FACT

MURDER CAN NEVER BE JUSTIFIED

NO ONE is EVER justified in strapping a bomb to themselves and murdering innocent civilians in wanton acts of terrorism.

and you are wrong in ASSUMING that they dont have the money to buy guns....they do and they have huge stockpiles of arms, supplied to them by the iraqis....saddam hussien himself had a program smuggling troops thru jordan into the west bank, to help with the training of the terrorists. syria had and i believe still homes the islamic jihad, and hezbullah training camps that brainwash young(10-17 yearolds) children, into believing its "the right thing to do", to DIE whilst killing innocent civilians........FACT


and i see you neatly avoided all the other points i brought up.....


go there, LIVE there, SEE the truth with your OWN eyes.....and stop propagating lies , of which you know NOTHING except what you are TOLD.

as i said, ive been there and served there.
1) You are so full of hatred, but you're right - I've never been there. All I do know is that with your kind of attitude, people will keep on dying.

2) Don't call me a little boy. There is a strong chance that i'm bigger/stronger than you. :eek:
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idf_army_man
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#1172
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#1172
im not spouting hatred,im stating figures and facts.......that is NOT hatred. in fact in golders green im friendly with a load of morrocan muslims, that not only know me as a person, but also know that i served in the idf, they are friends with me, and i am friends with them. in israel, i not only have arab friends, but also arab work collegues, who live and work within israel. there are hundreds of thousands of israeli arabs that live in a beautiful coexsistence with jewish israelis......

if we were soooo filled with hatred and loathing for arabs, this would never happen.

but the media in the western world never shows this side of life in the middle east.

there is no other democratic society in the whole of the middle east with the exception of israel.

in the kinesset, the israeli parliment, the palestinians are given 5 seats gratis on the cabinet. show me another parliment in the middle east where jews are given even one seat somewhere amongst the 30 or so arab countrys.....exactly....

the hate is form only the arab world. the suffering of the palestinians is proonged by them because it suits their interests....a PERFECT example are the refugee camps just within the syrian border. the syrians refuse to aid any of the people there, why? back in the 80's the israeli government heard about the jewish eathiopians starving to death in ethiopia, what happened, they airlifted every single last one of them, flew them to israel, clothed, fed and housed them.

never in the history of mankind has that kind of humanitarian effort ever taken place........nor would it.

i know personally his royal highness prince abed senussi of libya. his family was thrown out by colnel kadafi. he has told me that peace is what is needed, and that israel can bring peace to not only to itself, but structured correctly, it would pacify the entire region..... if only the terrorist fanatics would let them.


i hate no one, i just dont want to see any more of my friends DIE, ive buried 2 close friends so far. you have to understand that its not a case of land or money.....they want the destruction of all jews everywhere.

this will never happen.
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idf_army_man
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#1173
Report 15 years ago
#1173
trust me, brains over brawn every time. you might be bigger, you might be stronger, but if it came down to it, i would snap you like a twig.

why do children always have to resort to fisticuffs, to try and get their point across.?????
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adelz
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#1174
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#1174
http://www.middleastern.tk for discussion on these issues !!
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Bigcnee
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#1175
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#1175
(Original post by idf_army_man)
trust me, brains over brawn every time. you might be bigger, you might be stronger, but if it came down to it, i would snap you like a twig.

why do children always have to resort to fisticuffs, to try and get their point across.?????
a) No, you wouldn't.
b) Your first point followed by your second is hypocrisy.

Whilst I am saddened about the situation in the Middle East, I really can't be bothered to argue with you.
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idf_army_man
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#1176
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#1176
bravo....

cant be bothered???????????????????????? ??

sorry i was under the impression you understand why these terrorsits DIE for their cause.......and you CANT BE BOTHERED to debate your points with me.

in that case you offer no defence for the murderous atrocities that have taken place in the name of islam, and you should , from now on, not spout hate .
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Bigcnee
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#1177
Report 15 years ago
#1177
(Original post by idf_army_man)
bravo....

cant be bothered???????????????????????? ??

sorry i was under the impression you understand why these terrorsits DIE for their cause.......and you CANT BE BOTHERED to debate your points with me.

in that case you offer no defence for the murderous atrocities that have taken place in the name of islam, and you should , from now on, not spout hate .
I can't be botheredm, as I'm at University and have work to do. I also find your RANDOM capitalisation of LETTERS quite irritating.

You also write in a one-sided and aggressive manner.

I don't believe the "facts" you claim.

You are quite condescending and dismissive.

I don't like the fact that you cannot accept that the Israeli army has been responsible for atrocities.

I don't like arguing with people that have been involved in the military, as they tend to have been brainwashed.

All of these elements lead to one conclusion - I can't be bothered to argue with you.

I'm not all Pro-Palestinian. I respect the right for normal Israeli people to live in peace, safely. I don't respect the actions of the Israeli government towards the people of Palestine.
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