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Doudoula
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#1
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Due to the widespread use of english in business all around the world, more and more foreigners, in particular EU students, are applying to university in the UK.

Oxbridge is notoriously oversubscribed, with many worthy candidates rejected each year. Surely, priority should be given to UK applicants over foreign students, when allocating places?

This might come across as very right-wing, but I happen to have six friends who applied to read maths at Oxbridge, three of them French, the other three British - I'm canadian by the way. Needless to say the three french got in, while the three brits were rejected. All six were pretty smart.

Britons don't tend to apply for continental universities because of the language barrier so in effect competition in the UK (especially Oxbridge) is even greater with so many foreigners applying.

What do you think?
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kildare
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(Original post by Doudoula)
Due to the widespread use of english in business all around the world, more and more foreigners, in particular EU students, are applying to university in the UK.

Oxbridge is notoriously oversubscribed, with many worthy candidates rejected each year. Surely, priority should be given to UK applicants over foreign students, when allocating places?

This might come across as very right-wing, but I happen to have six friends who applied to read maths at Oxbridge, three of them French, the other three British - I'm canadian by the way. Needless to say the three french got in, while the three brits were rejected. All six were pretty smart.

Britons don't tend to apply for continental universities because of the language barrier so in effect competition in the UK (especially Oxbridge) is even greater with so many foreigners applying.

What do you think?
They're only allowed to take 7% anyway (I think). In addition, if Oxbridge want to remain 'world class' insitutions surely it's in their best interests to attract the best students from around the world. They also want diversity as they believe it helps the learning enviroment for everyone.

Oh and yea, they need the money (which only comes from people outside the EU and EEA by the way, so wouldn't make a difference when it came to taking French students).
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amexblack
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(Original post by kildare)
They're only allowed to take 7% anyway (I think). In addition, if Oxbridge want to remain 'world class' insitutions surely it's in their best interests to attract the best students from around the world. They also want diversity as they believe it helps the learning enviroment for everyone.

Oh and yea, they need the money (which only comes from people outside the EU and EEA by the way, so wouldn't make a difference when it came to taking French students).
I don't think there is an overall quota of 7%,although for particular subjects (not maths though) there are. But I agree, diversity is a good thing and Cambridge should continue to accept the best applicants, regardless of nationality.
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kildare
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Hmmm, yea I only heard about the 7% (which only applies to Oxbridge) thing today from my referee because she was telling me about how they were trying to increase it to 12% or something. Sounded rather random.
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frappucino
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IMO oxbridge still is extremely conservative when it comes to international students, especially those of middle eastern/asian nationality. at my school there were two ppl applying to oxbridge, one with very high grades and iranian nationality, another with lower but nevertheless good grades and german nationality. needless to say, the german was preferred over the other, although the german's grades weren't as good.

i know this is just one example but i think it speaks for itself.
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J.S.
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(Original post by frappucino)
IMO oxbridge still is extremely conservative when it comes to international students, especially those of middle eastern/asian nationality. at my school there were two ppl applying to oxbridge, one with very high grades and iranian nationality, another with lower but nevertheless good grades and german nationality. needless to say, the german was preferred over the other, although the german's grades weren't as good.

i know this is just one example but i think it speaks for itself.

I don't agree. Unless you mean that those who were actually educated in Asia and are applying for the Arts. Then there is a bias against them, rightfully so.
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Brown Patrick Bateman
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Unis, Oxbridge in particular, especially the poorer colleges, need more money. No wonder over 1 in 5 freshers at my college are foreign.
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Mentally Ill
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(Original post by frappucino)
IMO oxbridge still is extremely conservative when it comes to international students, especially those of middle eastern/asian nationality. at my school there were two ppl applying to oxbridge, one with very high grades and iranian nationality, another with lower but nevertheless good grades and german nationality. needless to say, the german was preferred over the other, although the german's grades weren't as good.

i know this is just one example but i think it speaks for itself.
This hardly speaks for itself.
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lilsunflower
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(Original post by J.S.)
I don't agree. Unless you mean that those who were actually educated in Asia and are applying for the Arts. Then there is a bias against them, rightfully so.
Why the 'rightfully so'?

I was educated in Asia in 2 international schools under the British curriculum, and later the best Singaporean girl's school. English is my first language ... though I admit, I don't speak with the accent and all.

Just curious to see why you say that there should be a bias against those educated in Asia. Lee Kwan Yew, the Senior Minister of Singapore got a First Class for Law from Cambridge in 1949 - when Singapore was an undeveloped country.

"I had made a First and won the only star for Distinction on the final Law Tripos II honours list. Choo (his wife) also made a First"
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Jamie
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#10
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#10
(Original post by Doudoula)
Due to the widespread use of english in business all around the world, more and more foreigners, in particular EU students, are applying to university in the UK.

Oxbridge is notoriously oversubscribed, with many worthy candidates rejected each year. Surely, priority should be given to UK applicants over foreign students, when allocating places?

This might come across as very right-wing, but I happen to have six friends who applied to read maths at Oxbridge, three of them French, the other three British - I'm canadian by the way. Needless to say the three french got in, while the three brits were rejected. All six were pretty smart.

Britons don't tend to apply for continental universities because of the language barrier so in effect competition in the UK (especially Oxbridge) is even greater with so many foreigners applying.

What do you think?
1) If we can't be arsed to learn other languages then that's our problem
2) Foreign applicants are a well needed source of income.
3) They also bring new skills and ways of thinking
4) And they increase the diversity and culture in our universities
5) That is rather our top universities, hence why sh*te unis tend to be bland and, well, very British

J
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Suzy_vet
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#11
(Original post by foolfarian)
1) If we can't be arsed to learn other languages then that's our problem
2) Foreign applicants are a well needed source of income.
3) They also bring new skills and ways of thinking
4) And they increase the diversity and culture in our universities
5) That is rather our top universities, hence why sh*te unis tend to be bland and, well, very British

J
Can i just say that part of the reason the British are renound for not speaking other languages is which one should we actually speak?

For people of other nationalities, English is the obvious choice becasue it has become the global language of buisness. When other European countries come togather, they often speak in english because most people speak it.

What is the natural choice for english speakers? Whichever one you speak its the wrong one. French, German, Italian, Spanish, portugese, chinese, japanese, turkish, greece, arabic (which dialect) etc. There is no logical choice. Perhpas Spanish, because it is spoken in many countries. But again, if you meet a german and you speak spanish, they will just think 'typical british, cant speak any other language;, when they do, just not the right one!

It is good to have diversity, but to be honest 1 in 5 seems like an auful lot for a british uni when lots brits want to go.
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starry
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(Original post by Suzy_vet)
It is good to have diversity, but to be honest 1 in 5 seems like an auful lot for a british uni when lots brits want to go.
What are the exact statistics? And EU countries (those abovementioned French) pay home fees.
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Suzy_vet
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(Original post by starry)
What are the exact statistics? And EU countries (those abovementioned French) pay home fees.
I dont know the stats, but as someone had said i didnt think you were allowed more than 7%.
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J.S.
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(Original post by lilsunflower)
Why the 'rightfully so'?

I was educated in Asia in 2 international schools under the British curriculum, and later the best Singaporean girl's school. English is my first language ... though I admit, I don't speak with the accent and all.

Just curious to see why you say that there should be a bias against those educated in Asia. Lee Kwan Yew, the Senior Minister of Singapore got a First Class for Law from Cambridge in 1949 - when Singapore was an undeveloped country.

"I had made a First and won the only star for Distinction on the final Law Tripos II honours list. Choo (his wife) also made a First"

See, what you're doing is quoting exceptions. I'm not speaking out of ignorance, I've taught in India and Japan, as well as studied at the LSE (i.e. the most diverse institution in the UK). As for the bias, perhaps not for the more technical subjects though. As for Law, Government, Politics and the like, so many Asians do tend to really struggle. It's because so often their critical thinking is not as well developed via their domestic education. Too much of their learning is via rote.

Also, one of my mates who worked at Columbia Univ. told me that there were many cases of Asians with very absurdly high grades being rejected. This isn't actually due to racism, it's because such people just fit the sterotype of being pressured at home and having their education stuffed down them. I think it stiffles creativity when people are learning purely for the sake of examinations rather than a more open ended approach.

I don't mean to sound offensive, I think universities should take in well qualified asian people, I am actually of asian origin myself! It's just I can see why they discriminate against people who are educated in the manner that I have described, as so many people educated throughout asia tend to, unfortunately. You just wait for your graduation, it's sad sometimes that so many of the asian people in the arts based courses who spent their entire 3 years in the library do not obtain first class honours, or anywhere near it.
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J.S.
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(Original post by foolfarian)
1) If we can't be arsed to learn other languages then that's our problem
2) Foreign applicants are a well needed source of income.
3) They also bring new skills and ways of thinking
4) And they increase the diversity and culture in our universities
5) That is rather our top universities, hence why sh*te unis tend to be bland and, well, very British

J

lol. your 5th point, although it seems logical i.e. that more famous universities would attract a greater proportion of international students, it's actually not quite like that in reality. The only difference is that the more famous universities attract foreign students of a higher calibre, others of a far lower standard.

Off the top of my head, Thames Valley would probably have more foreign students than Oxford, if not then City University certainly would!
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selkie222
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Durham is a great uni but it is not internationally well-known.... well, not where I come from anyways.

Lots of overseas students (I'm living overseas myself) just pick the unis that they have heard of, which are mostly London ones. Hence IC, LSE etc has a very high proportion of foreign students.
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lilsunflower
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(Original post by J.S.)
It's because so often their critical thinking is not as well developed via their domestic education. Too much of their learning is via rote.
I see where you're coming from now. What nearly all Asians have (wait, let me refer specifically to South East Asians) are amazing work ethics. However, as you have said, many of them tend to learn via rote. For example, I know people who have done triple pure sciences + maths + additional maths at secondary school, progress to doing triple sciences and double maths at college. THEN, they apply to read something like Law. Sure they have done amazingly well in the sciences and maths. However, they MAY not have the necessary thinking skills or even writing skills to read a subject like Law.

I say this from an outside perspective despite being South East Asian. I was at an international primary school with British teachers and curriculum. Then I got a scholarship to Singapore at a really demanding girls' school. I hated it to bits coz' everyone was memorising essays and the 'right' answers!!! It was awful. Despite that, they all had amazing results, turning out the best grades - but it wasn't through learning, only memory work. Then thankfully I got a scholarship to an international college and I'm much happier here. Like in Britain, we focus on developing thoughts, and vibrant discussion and argument are strongly encouraged.

Thanks for clearing up that misunderstanding.
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JrW
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#18
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as people have already said...i think that foreign students are ectremely important in maintaining a diverse community and a 'world class' one.

P.S. this was my 100th post.....im very happy
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