Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by storna)
    Entry standards are still pretty significant. Why don't you think Oxbridge accept BCC for their law course, for example?
    because too many people would apply there has to be cut off point


    Some argue that since the merger and due to some under-performing departments, it has slightly dropped in overall quality. That's not to say it isn't still a good university.

    And, the uni you refer to has been around the top 20 mark for a few years now, so a jump to the top 10 is not that shocking. University quality is fluid. If a university invests to a higher extent in its students and facilities, improves its research quality, teaching standards and so on then its quality will naturally improve. This has been seen with a lot of the plate glass universities who have gradually built up a reputation and overtaken some of the older universities.

    Let me make something clear - I don't think Essex is a poor university. Indeed, I think it's pretty good when taking everything into account.

    However, the context of this discussion is league tables (whether they be RAE or otherwise), and it is my view that the newspaper league tables are more reliable in this case. That's not to say the RAE results are useless, but I don't believe people can claim Essex is an overall top 10 university because of the 2008 RAE results.

    I don't, in the grand scheme of things believe league tables are the be all and end all, and I think when all factors are considered - Essex is a pretty good institution.
    i'm more going along the lines of be careful with what league tables say, as they all say different things

    i have seen a few snobbish comment on well if essex can than everyone else should be allowed
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    The only way is Essex.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Essex is predominantly a research-oriented University. As a 1st year undergraduate studying Biological Sciences at this University, I've seen first hand how amazing and profound the quality of research is. Currently ranked 9th in the U.K for research, Essex needs a way of holding this position (and maybe even rising in the ranks). Keeping the annual tuition fee as it is at the moment would be foolish. Why would they not charge more to keep the reputation of a top 10 research institution?
    Anybody who hasn't witnessed the fantastic education at Essex can not say that it's "below average". I've been studying at this University for 6 months and I can safely say that I am 110% happy with the level of education. Furthermore, the increase of tuition fees will put Essex higher in the U.K rankings and will in turn reflect Essex's world-renowned teaching.
    One more thing. ALL Universities offer so called "Mickey Mouse" degrees. Whilst watching the Oxford/Cambridge boat race on television today and seeing one of the rowers studying "The Social Studies of the Internet" just proves this.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Well it was pretty obvious that they Uni's are going to have to charge the maximum when their funding has been cut by 80%
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dan_Grimmer)
    Whilst watching the Oxford/Cambridge boat race on television today and seeing one of the rowers studying "The Social Studies of the Internet" just proves this.
    Interesting. Don't be too hasty with the Mickey Mouse label though.

    At the moment I am examining the role of media literacy and social media networks in the pro-democracy movements across North Africa, and how that fits with new media technologies circumventing the dominant discourse of the propaganda model. The implications for governance worldwide are huge.

    It's one of those things that is a great deal more challenging than most people assume.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Grrrrrrr.... Conservative *******s. I'm emigrating (once i've taken advantage of my £3k a year uni course!)
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    PS Helper
    (Original post by Dan_Grimmer)
    Essex is predominantly a research-oriented University. As a 1st year undergraduate studying Biological Sciences at this University, I've seen first hand how amazing and profound the quality of research is. Currently ranked 9th in the U.K for research, Essex needs a way of holding this position (and maybe even rising in the ranks). Keeping the annual tuition fee as it is at the moment would be foolish. Why would they not charge more to keep the reputation of a top 10 research institution?
    Anybody who hasn't witnessed the fantastic education at Essex can not say that it's "below average". I've been studying at this University for 6 months and I can safely say that I am 110% happy with the level of education. Furthermore, the increase of tuition fees will put Essex higher in the U.K rankings and will in turn reflect Essex's world-renowned teaching.
    One more thing. ALL Universities offer so called "Mickey Mouse" degrees. Whilst watching the Oxford/Cambridge boat race on television today and seeing one of the rowers studying "The Social Studies of the Internet" just proves this.

    It makes me feel good now to put Essex as my firm. I have always known that it's amazing for the subject I want to do. Although you are tlaking about different subjetc but it kind of confirm I will get great quality of education from it. I can't wait to go there, to be honest.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Bit late on this. Only came across it when searching for an Imperial thread (that I wanted to move). Apologies if this kicks off the same arguments :p:

    (Original post by robinson999)
    some of the comments on that daily mail site, like essex a old polytechnic,even calling surry a old polytechnic is a bit hard
    essex has always been a uni, formed along with many in the 60s known as Plate glass university, don't see any one going ewww york or so on nor Warwick, Lancaster, Bath
    Yeah. I wonder if when Warwick announce their fees, the media will be highlight how "new" it is.

    But you don't expect numpty journalists to realise that, despite its relatively modest league table position, it is still amongst our leading universities? They wouldn't know what the 1994 Group is if it bit them on the arse (or the elbow). Believing that the Russell Group is the cream (and that York and Durham are in it...)

    (Original post by storna)
    How are "entry standards, student satisfaction, staff/student ratio, academic services and facilities expenditure per student, research quality, proportion of Firsts and 2:1s, completion rates and student destinations" not crucial factors? Or at least some of them? Would you honestly be happy to attend a university that had pretty good research but poor teaching standards
    As far as I'm aware no university league table takes teaching quality into account. The Guardian in particular try to, by using student satisfaction, but this isn't a particularly objective measure of teaching quality. A better measure is the QAA teaching reports although even these are a bit out of date.

    high drop-outs
    Doesn't mean to say that the university is poor. This can be massively influenced by the socio-economic status of students. A few years ago Glasgow, a world renowned and Russell Group university, began to wide their intake but taking increasingly large numbers of students from deprived areas. These students were bright enough but, being from a poorer background, are more likely to experience financial difficulty, ill health, or family problems. All of which can result in them needing to drop out regardless of how good the university's support network is.

    I can discuss the other criteria, particularly student staff ratio, but, well, I get a bit tired of it :p:

    Now, even if we accept the criteria being used in league tables as useful, I can think of a number of other things that can be taken into account. Why don't we include those, too? Most importantly is the problem of weighting. We agree with the criteria, right, but these criteria are weighted in a certain way. What makes this weighting correct?

    I have just gone to the Independent's league table and changed the criteria only slightly (placing more of an emphasis on reseach quality and less on entry standards). This has made Essex to significantly climb up the table, it is now just behind the redbricks and Russell Group universities of Sheffield, Leeds, Birmingham and Newcastle.

    Finally, even if you do think a university ranking consistantly across the league tables provides some evidence of a university's quality, you still need to recongised that, unlike league tables, the real world doesn't operate in this way. People talk about "top tens" as if eight is better than eighteen. This is despite both universities being strong multi-faculty universites (with an equal share of modest departments), comparable standard of students and facilities. There isn't necessarily some decline in university quality every five places down a league table.

    [QUOTE] However, the context of this discussion is league tables (whether they be RAE or otherwise), and it is my view that the newspaper league tables are more reliable in this case. That's not to say the RAE results are useless, but I don't believe people can claim Essex is an overall top 10 university because of the 2008 RAE results.[QUOTE]

    No, because the "top ten" is actually a myth

    (Original post by im so academic)
    What are these specific universities? Which specific courses? I want details.
    im so academic. Like Johnny Five on speed.

    Oh, as far your "you're not comparing Essex to Durham remark", I'll compare the two. I know which one has the better politics department (away from Middle Eastern and Islamic Studies). It isn't Durham.
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    PS Helper
    (Original post by River85)
    Oh, as far your "you're not comparing Essex to Durham remark", I'll compare the two. I know which one has the better politics department (away from Middle Eastern and Islamic Studies). It isn't Durham.
    That's exactly why I chose Essex for Politics.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by robinson999)
    some of the comments on that daily mail site, like essex a old polytechnic,even calling surry a old polytechnic is a bit hard
    essex has always been a uni, formed along with many in the 60s known as Plate glass university, don't see any one going ewww york or so on nor Warwick, Lancaster, Bath


    its one of the countries good unis, punches way above its weight in terms of its size, a top 10 uni for its research, a uni that has departments that rank with Oxbridge and above

    just because its Essex don't rule it out, its in the 1994 group as well, which will pretty much charge the full £9k, every uni that is in the group

    the daily mail really need to learn something here
    Lancaster isn't that great so I wouldn't hold your breathe, definitely not an elite university. Warwick and Bath are both excellent though. I would love to go to either.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by alexs2602)
    Lancaster isn't that great so I wouldn't hold your breathe, definitely not an elite university. Warwick and Bath are both excellent though. I would love to go to either.
    but why, is that because the views of others, or what you have seem from a newspaper

    what is a elite uni one that has been open for 100's of years
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by robinson999)
    but why, is that because the views of others, or what you have seem from a newspaper

    what is a elite uni one that has been open for 100's of years
    Warrick's 'elite' yet its only been around for less.

    Basically its just reputation, what employers will know as a good place to get a degree from. Its also based on where all the cutting edge stuff is coming out, so in science, a place which constantly produces good research will get a good rep, and its where the research money goes. You know that some places actually are better when you hear so much about what is being developed at Stanford or MIT or UCL or whatever.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    LOL you idiots, Essex can charge 9k 'coz of the girls, simply that. Nobody's gonna pay £9k for the education lol, it's a middle of the road uni. £9k is hilarious, people were paying £1k a year for Ox/Cam/IC/LSE a few years ago. Essex = women, so people will pay it. Remember, the only way is ...
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    PS Helper
    (Original post by Physics Enemy)
    LOL you idiots, Essex can charge 9k 'coz of the girls, simply that. Nobody's gonna pay £9k for the education lol, it's a middle of the road uni. £9k is hilarious, people were paying £1k a year for Ox/Cam/IC/LSE a few years ago. Essex = women, so people will pay it. Remember, the only way is ...
    Oh really? :O

    STFU and GTFO
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jacke02)
    Warrick's 'elite' yet its only been around for less.

    Basically its just reputation, what employers will know as a good place to get a degree from. Its also based on where all the cutting edge stuff is coming out, so in science, a place which constantly produces good research will get a good rep, and its where the research money goes. You know that some places actually are better when you hear so much about what is being developed at Stanford or MIT or UCL or whatever.
    most employers outside off law and banking don't really place alot on where your degree is from

    they get more money and are more of a name, unis work with each other, a few people at UCL work with essex staff, even one of my modules is taught by UCL lecturer

    if you say constantly produces good research why not think of essex than
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Physics Enemy)
    LOL you idiots, Essex can charge 9k 'coz of the girls, simply that. Nobody's gonna pay £9k for the education lol, it's a middle of the road uni. £9k is hilarious, people were paying £1k a year for Ox/Cam/IC/LSE a few years ago. Essex = women, so people will pay it. Remember, the only way is ...
    People don't go to Essex uni for the girls. They go because it's near enough to east London for the chavs to go back home at the weekends.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by robinson999)
    most employers outside off law and banking don't really place alot on where your degree is from

    they get more money and are more of a name, unis work with each other, a few people at UCL work with essex staff, even one of my modules is taught by UCL lecturer

    if you say constantly produces good research why not think of essex than
    I don't know anything about essex, but from what i've heard its pretty much one of the elite unis. Not to the same extent as UCL but still really good, along with places like York.

    By definition there can only be 4-5 "elite" universities- although they may not be the best for some untraditional courses i.e. media or marketing.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Joke will be on them when market forces start to take effect...
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Yes Essex is charging such fees alongside the 'elite' unis, but it is far from the only one to do so. It's more of a question as to whether universities which aren't going to provide the same level of teaching that the elite ones do should be able to charge the same price, don't view Essex in isolation.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jacke02)
    I don't know anything about essex, but from what i've heard its pretty much one of the elite unis. Not to the same extent as UCL but still really good, along with places like York.

    By definition there can only be 4-5 "elite" universities- although they may not be the best for some untraditional courses i.e. media or marketing.
    i dunno about being one of the elite, it maybe good or up there :p:

    its the untraditional courses that get bad press sadly
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Brexit voters: Do you stand by your vote?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.