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Rape attitude - TAKE 2 watch

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    You've got to look at in the form of innocent till proven guilty. So she was wasted, and she shagged some guy, he said it was consented, she was drunk, and claimed it was rape. However there was no evidence that she was raped, because there were no direct witnesses.

    So the guy probably took advantage of her, but thats not rape.

    If she'd had her drink spiked, then sure it would have been rape, but she didn't. She got drunk and did something she regretted, woke up in the morning and thought, damn, i would never shag this guy. It must have been rape.

    Seems fair to me. there was no evidence or rape, and without any evidence theres no choice but to give not guilty.
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    (Original post by morningtheft)
    If someone is unconscious, there is no chance that they'll be able to remember exactly what happened. Such is the nature of unconsciousness. That doesn't mean we can never prosecute rapists who rape unconscious girls, just because they can't remember it clearly, does it?
    No, but herein is the point. She says she doens't remember if she gave consent. If she was unconscious then she could not have given consent. Using simple logic here, it means she doesn't know if she was unconscious or not.
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    (Original post by morningtheft)
    If someone is unconscious, there is no chance that they'll be able to remember exactly what happened. Such is the nature of unconsciousness. That doesn't mean we can never prosecute rapists who rape unconscious girls, just because they can't remember it clearly, does it?
    If they can't remember whether they had or not then it cannot go beyond all reasonable doubt. If something cannot be proven they cannot be proecuted. That is the law.
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    (Original post by Kard)
    If they can't remember whether they had or not then it cannot go beyond all reasonable doubt. If something cannot be proven they cannot be proecuted. That is the law.
    And furthermore it is the law based on a prinicple so that innocent people do not have thier liberty removed for something they did not do.
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    (Original post by Kard)
    If they can't remember whether they had or not then it cannot go beyond all reasonable doubt. If something cannot be proven they cannot be proecuted. That is the law.

    Ah just because he got off, doesnt mean it wasn't rape.

    Morally she was raped, i'm sure you'd have to agree?

    but just because it didnt go beyond all reasonable doubt doesnt mean he's innocent. which is a good thing that hes names in the media as at least people will be a bit more weary around him.
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    (Original post by morningtheft)
    How exactly does someone 'shag a guy' while unconscious?
    But she equivocates on her consciousness if you read it carefully, that is my fundamental point here, and that is why her case collapsed
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    (Original post by morningtheft)
    So, basically, it's okay for men to rape unconscious women as much as they like, on the grounds that she won't remember it properly in the morning?
    That is just twisting his words to justify assumptions that are patently untrue
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    There wasn't enought evidence, it's as simple as that.

    There are already laws in place to protect women, whether drunk or otherwise. The outcome of this case does not mean that women who were raped whilst drunk will be unable to prosecute, it just means that the prosecution did not have enough evidence.

    And let's face it, if she can't remember if she consented to it or not, then what have they got to go on?
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    Maybe he was drunk too?
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    Thats the worst thing about rape cases....most of the time its one word against another with only a small amount of other evidence. Especially in cases of date rape and rape when the person was drunk. Really awful...
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    (Original post by morningtheft)
    So, basically, it's okay for men to rape unconscious women as much as they like, on the grounds that she won't remember it properly in the morning?
    No, I don't think its okay (bold in order to hammer home the fact that my moral opinion on the subject of rape in general and my legal opinion on this case in question are two different things), but that is my moral opinion on the subject. The legal system works differently.
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    (Original post by ferrus)
    So in effect you refuse to listen to the reasonable arguments of the other side just becuase of your emotionalist and unreflective arguements. Which are based of *your* subjective opinions and not the objective facts of the case in relation to what the law states. That is the very mentality that defines a kangaroo court.
    No, my raspberry is the fact you and Kard made great points. I have no defense to that bar a raspberry sorry should have explained damn emoticon additction
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    Exactly. Legally the case does not set a precedent so what is there to worry about?
    Although I accept that the conviction rate in rape cases is appalling, and that many women have their entire sexual histories turned over in court and are intimidated and traumatised, you also have to accept that when there isn't enough evidence, there is not much that you can do.

    Unless of course you have a presumption that all men are inherent sexual predators, and we souldn't want that, surely?
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    (Original post by beach_surf_babe)
    Thats the worst thing about rape cases....most of the time its one word against another with only a small amount of other evidence. Especially in cases of date rape and rape when the person was drunk. Really awful...
    True it is a fundamental problem, and not hard to solve. But surley you must see above all else that crimes must be prooven before someone is punished for it?

    For what it's worth modern foresic techniques do offer the possibility of a larger numer of rape prosecutions being sucessful
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    They should be punished! There are no 2 ways about it!
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    (Original post by morningtheft)
    But do you think that men who rape unconscious women shouldn't be able to be punished for their actions?

    Doesn't that essentially render raping unconscious women legal?
    There are laws against raping unconscious women therefore making it illegal. When such men are brought before a court and have been proven to rape an unconscious woman they are convicted. In this case it couldn't be proven.
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    Raping unconcious women is of course illegal. The point is that in this case, there was no evidence to suggest that she was unconcious.
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    (Original post by ferrus)
    For what it's worth modern foresic techniques do offer the possibility of a larger numer of rape prosecutions being sucessful
    Except that many women are put off by the whole ordeal because the services provided in this country can make everthing seem even worse. Especially when the prosecution rates in this country are still really low and there isn't much of a support system for these women and facilties vary widely across teh country. Some don't even have a specialist unit!
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    (Original post by beach_surf_babe)
    They should be punished! There are no 2 ways about it!
    Merely based on the suspicion? Please.
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    So, in effect, if she had lied and said she did say no, then it would have been clear cut.
 
 
 
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