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    I think people are quick to forget that the Islamic Revolution of 1979 in Iran shifted the country from secularism into Islamism.

    Why is it so ridiculous to assume that's what people want now? I know a lot about Turkish politics, and over the last ten years there, there's been a massive rise of Islamism and along with it oppression. Turkey is not the 'model Islamic state' that America wants the world to recognise it as: far from it.
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    (Original post by und)
    I think people are quick to forget that the Islamic Revolution of 1979 in Iran shifted the country from secularism into Islamism.

    Why is it so ridiculous to assume that's what people want now? I know a lot about Turkish politics, and over the last ten years there, there's been a massive rise of Islamism and along with it oppression. Turkey is not the 'model Islamic state' that America wants the world to recognise it as: far from it.
    How is 9179 Iran anything like Tunisia today. You stated that you believe the protests in Tunisia had intentions of building an Islamic state and when pressed as to why - you gave the reason that you suspect this may be going on.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    The US can never take Iran for its "oil". If they went in they would just have an unwinnable situation which would be on a completely different scale to Afghanistan, and any military campaign in Iran would send world oil prices spiralling out of control. That's why the US is always so cagey on Iran, trying to rein in Israel. They've been saying year after year "all options are on the table with Iran including the military option to stop them getting nuclear weapons". Well those options will be off the table when Iran has nuclear capacity to strike Israel and Saudi. And thats whats going to happen, Iran will just get nuclear weapons before long and nothing will have been done about it. The US will never go in and fight in Iran because they know the consequences for oil prices would destroy the US economy. So they treat Iran with kid gloves.

    In time I think the Iranian problem will resolve itself demographically. It's a young nation and fewer and fewer people from the revolution are around. It's also a much better educated and political population than the others in the region. I expect that eventually the pressure cooker on the pro democracy movement will force the leadership into reforms. The leadership will know that if it comes to civil war, they might have a powerful police state but that won't guarantee them power once the Iranian people get mobilised...the Shah had a powerful police state in 1979 with a fearsome reputation and that got toppled.
    I would never say never. Invasion of Iran is on the cards, make no mistake. The USA has been heavily preparing itself.
    Noam Chomsky agrees.

    Here's an excerpt, although written last year. If you read the full article you see the hypocrisy of the USA especially when it comes to Israel.

    The Obama administration has been rapidly expanding its offensive capacity in the African island of Diego Garcia, claimed by Britain, which had expelled the population so that the US could build the massive base it uses for attacking the Middle East and Central Asia. The Navy reports sending a submarine tender to the island to service nuclear-powered guided-missile submarines with Tomahawk missiles, which can carry nuclear warheads. Each submarine is reported to have the striking power of a typical carrier battle group. According to a US Navy cargo manifest obtained by the Sunday Herald (Glasgow), the substantial military equipment Obama has dispatched includes 387 .bunker busters. used for blasting hardened underground structures. Planning for these .massive ordnance penetrators,. the most powerful bombs in the arsenal short of nuclear weapons, was initiated in the Bush administration, but languished. On taking office, Obama immediately accelerated the plans, and they are to be deployed several years ahead of schedule, aiming specifically at Iran.

    .They are gearing up totally for the destruction of Iran,. according to Dan Plesch, director of the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy at the University of London.

    Read more: http://chomsky-must-read.blogspot.co...#ixzz1HZ7hRam3
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    How is 9179 Iran anything like Tunisia today. You stated that you believe the protests in Tunisia had intentions of building an Islamic state and when pressed as to why - you gave the reason that you suspect this may be going on.
    - along with a strong grounding in Turkish politics.

    I can tell you for sure that there's a shift from secularism to what the West likes to call 'moderate Islamic states' in the Middle East, and it's being encouraged. However, these states are not so moderate. In Turkey for example, thousands of journalists are still in custody awaiting trial - some of them have been held for years. Hundreds of leading military officials have had their houses raided and many of them have been arrested under false allegations. Most of the media is now state owned. The judicial system is under the command of the government. I can assure you that things are worse than they were, and they're steadily getting worse.
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    (Original post by und)
    - along with a strong grounding in Turkish politics.

    I can tell you for sure that there's a shift from secularism to what the West likes to call 'moderate Islamic states' in the Middle East, and it's being encouraged. However, these states are not so moderate. In Turkey for example, thousands of journalists are still in custody awaiting trial - some of them have been held for years. Hundreds of leading military officials have had their houses raided and many of them have been arrested under false allegations. Most of the media is now state owned. The judicial system is under the command of the government. I can assure you that things are worse than they were, and they're steadily getting worse.
    Pahaha now I know you don't have a clue. Turkey isn't an Islamic state - moderate or otherwise. :rolleyes:
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    The Iranian enforces a lot more brutal terror than the other countries, is richer and much more effective at covering up their crimed than the surrounding regimes that have fallen.

    However I though the exact same about the Egyptian and Tunisian regimes. Only when the people actually started protesting on a massive scale, did the world realise how hollow their power really is, and I suspect the same may be the case in Iran.
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    Pahaha now I know you don't have a clue. Turkey isn't an Islamic state - moderate or otherwise. :rolleyes:
    I'm Turkish. I think I probably know better than you, as a significant amount of my time is spent overhearing political conversations amongst family members and friends.

    Why don't you read about the ruling party yourself? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice...y_%28Turkey%29 - it was formed by Islamists. I can also tell you that the PM is extremely anti-Semitic and patronising towards most Turks.

    Edit: And why not have a read of this article whilst you're at it? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6912052.stm
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    (Original post by Koobideh)
    The Iranian government is a lot more sophisticated, brutal and advanced compared to the former Libyan, Tunisian and Egyptian governments so they are able to foil protests and make a police state more efficiently.

    But things will change there soon. I have lots of family in Iran, go there quite a lot, and there are barely any supporters of the regime there, not even in the poor areas. The economy is getting worse by the day and people are getting even more tired of the regime.

    Shirin Ebadi who was the Nobel Prize winner and one of the most prominent Iranian human rights activists and lawyers only recently said that there will be another uprising in Iran soon, it's just a matter of something sparking it all off again.
    Yeah but you have such a cool president. I'm a big fan of his speeches.

    Nuclear Iran ftw!
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    (Original post by und)
    I'm Turkish. I think I probably know better than you, as a significant amount of my time is spent overhearing political conversations amongst family members and friends.
    Well you must be a ****ing expert then. What are you doing sat here on TSR shouldn't you be out advising Erdogan. My point still stands: Turkey is NOT an Islamic state.

    (Original post by und)
    Why don't you read about the ruling party yourself? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice...y_%28Turkey%29 - it was formed by Islamists. I can also tell you that the PM is extremely anti-Semitic and patronising towards most Turks.
    The government has two ex-members from the reformist faction of an old Islamic party - so what.

    (Original post by und)
    Edit: And why not have a read of this article whilst you're at it? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6912052.stm
    What is the significance of this? There is not a shred of evidence in this article to support your claim of Turkey becoming an Islamic state - in fact it seems to point to the contrary. Also my initial question was in refference to Tunisia- a question you completely dodged in favour of an entirely irrelevant topic.
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    Because it is a democracy and hard as it is for some people - the majority of Iranians want the Ayahtollahs.

    So leave them be.

    It's only Israel, the US and their local lackeys that want " regime " change.
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    The regime has taken over most major business in Iran including oil and gas. They use Iran's petrodollars not for the service of the people but rather to hire savage mercenaries in the form of the Revolutionary Guard and Basij. These are then driven in to attack, rape and murder protesters and dissidents. That and the fact that there is no free media and internet access is limited making it hard to get information out and to organise.

    If (as Iranian dissidents and resistance figures from all shades of the political rainbow have suggested) an oil embargo was placed on Iran, the regime would fall overnight. Why? Because the regime's operatives and followers are no longer ideological for the most part. They simply want the money. Once that's gone, so will they. Then the people can bring democracy.


    The regime will fall. There is no doubt about that. The only question is how long it will take and how bloody it will be.
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    With your user name, I read this as 'why is Iron Man still standing?' :lolwut:
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    Well you must be a ****ing expert then. What are you doing sat here on TSR shouldn't you be out advising Erdogan. My point still stands: Turkey is NOT an Islamic state.



    The government has two ex-members from the reformist faction of an old Islamic party - so what.



    What is the significance of this? There is not a shred of evidence in this article to support your claim of Turkey becoming an Islamic state - in fact it seems to point to the contrary. Also my initial question was in refference to Tunisia- a question you completely dodged in favour of an entirely irrelevant topic.
    You really need to calm down. How many times have you been to Turkey? I had to be led away from someone for telling them I'm atheist, because they would have beaten me up eventually. Turkey may be a secular state constitutionally, but the government is not; they are in the process of introducing new laws and legislation, such as new regulations on alcohol consumption.

    And perhaps I was wrong to include Tunisia in my understanding of 'Arab countries', as I'm now reading that there's a profound lack of Islamic militants amongst the protestors. In contrast, the majority of protestors in countries like Egypt are different. I'm willing to admit I was wrong on that matter about Tunisia. Now admit you're wrong about Turkey, because you really have no idea, do you?
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    It is also worth noting that in Pakistan & Bangladesh (which have democratic elections) there has been practically no support for the Islamist political parties.
    Not to drag this off topic, but on what do you base this? from all the evidence I have seen it seems Pakistan is going further and further down the radical islamist route. Just look at the recent assasinations of those who dared to stand up to the 'blasphemy law' - the murderers were cheered in the street and praised by the imams. furthermore, I remember reading somewhere that for the secular moderates it is simply not possible to stand up to the islamists as they have so much influence and power.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    The regime has taken over most major business in Iran including oil and gas. .
    Herein lies the reason for the anti-iranian propaganda in this country.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    Herein lies the reason for the anti-iranian propaganda in this country.
    You didn't read the sentence after that, did you? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    You didn't read the sentence after that, did you? :rolleyes:
    Yes. Iran is exploiting its people and the international business community want in on the action. When eventually they go in an privatise everything do you think Iran is going to turn into some sort of paradise?
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    Yes. Iran is exploiting its people and the international business community want in on the action. When eventually they go in an privatise everything do you think Iran is going to turn into some sort of paradise?
    Clearly as a socialist, that's what I meant...:curious:

    What do you mean "eventually privatise"...it is privatised.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    Clearly as a socialist, that's what I meant...:curious:

    What do you mean "eventually privatise"...it is privatised.
    You said the government had taken over the oil and gas industries but now you're saying it's privatised?
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    You said the government had taken over the oil and gas industries but now you're saying it's privatised?
    I said the regime (i.e. a clique of nepotistic clerics and IRGC commanders) have taken it over. For all intents and purposes it is privatised.
 
 
 
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