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why is human life so cheap in modern britain? watch

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    in this country prison is meant to be about rehabilitating not punishing

    justice should be about deterrent, not rehabilitation.


    convicted criminals will eb rehabilitated if they feel like the sentence is a deterrent.


    compassion for crime facilitates crime. that is a mathematical formula.....
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    no, a kill is not a kill. thats semantic games.

    executing a murderer that has been convicted in a court of law is justice.

    compassion for murderers is not rational. it cheapens human life and facilitates violence.
    Clearly not a believer of 'human rights'
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    As cheap as the multiple appeals to make sure the person on death row has had ample chance to prove their innocence. Such cases will almost always be paid by the tax payer as the incarcerated won't really have much money after a few years in jail.

    Hell, Sweden has lower crime than here and has lower jail sentences, so it's nothing to do with punishment, etc.
    People like them want it to be about punishment though.

    Personally, I don't see what we as a country gain by spending thousands of pounds on an elaborate and expensive punishment, only for them to re-offend when they leave. What was the point?

    There needs to be a radical regeneration of the prison service as a rehabilitation unit. Surprisingly, locking someone up and treating them badly for years on end doesn't make well adjusted people ready to live in society.

    I can't remember which country (it was either the Netherlands or a Scandinavian one) but their prisons were set up to be a mirror of society. Prisoners lived in what was effectively a small town (surrounded by fences so they couldn't leave) and were free to live normally. Once they left, they integrated back into society just like a normal person, and there was very low re-offending levels.

    This is a true system of justice, whereas what we have now is geared more to revenge.
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    As cheap as the multiple appeals to make sure the person on death row has had ample chance to prove their innocence. Such cases will almost always be paid by the tax payer as the incarcerated won't really have much money after a few years in jail.

    Hell, Sweden has lower crime than here and has lower jail sentences, so it's nothing to do with punishment, etc.


    absolutely not true. executing is cheaper than imprisonment.

    again, how much is apiece of rope?

    im not being facetious either. the never ending appeal process is not necessary.






    swedish society has lower crime rates for many reasons.
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    Clearly not a believer of 'human rights'



    i believe in the ultimate human right...ie, not to be the victim of crime.


    compassion for crime facilitates crime, meaning that compassion for crime is the utimate human rights abuse.


    those who oppose the death penalty are therefore human rights abusers.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    absolutely not true. executing is cheaper than imprisonment.

    again, how much is apiece of rope?

    im not being facetious either. the never ending appeal process is not necessary.

    swedish society has lower crime rates for many reasons.
    Stunning arguments. I am bowled over by your amazing rhetoric.

    Sweden was but one example, there are others.

    As for appeal process, it is necessary, unless you wish to kill innocent people, in which case, you're definitely advocating murder, regardless of how you try and swing it.
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    This is a true system of justice, whereas what we have now is geared more to revenge.

    does 15 years average for murder sound like revenge to you?


    7 years rape?

    and if it was you or your family? would you still be on your high horse? i suspect no.......
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    i believe in the ultimate human right...ie, not to be the victim of crime.


    compassion for crime facilitates crime, meaning that compassion for crime is the utimate human rights abuse.


    those who oppose the death penalty are therefore human rights abusers.
    Put down The Daily Mail and step back quickly.


    Human rights covers the rights of all humans, even those who have commited crimes.

    http://www.antideathpenalty.org/reasons.html that may be US based but still have a read
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    Stunning arguments. I am bowled over by your amazing rhetoric.

    Sweden was but one example, there are others.

    As for appeal process, it is necessary, unless you wish to kill innocent people, in which case, you're definitely advocating murder, regardless of how you try and swing it.


    yeah, same here. stunning.



    so what are the others?..............



    i agree with appeals, but at present the convicted get appeals anyway. so your argument that it would be more expensive is simply not true.

    also, on a moral issue. execution is just. not everything is about money.
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    Put down The Daily Mail and step back quickly.


    Human rights covers the rights of all humans, even those who have commited crimes.


    DAILY MAIL CARD ALERT!


    oh dear. poor.


    the US does not have a proper death penalty system.

    the US has a murder rate of roughly 15,000 a year but executes only 50. roughly.

    so, its not a deterrent.


    if all humans have equal human rights despite behaviour then what you are advocating is anarchy. are you an anarchist?
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    because we all suck. we should stop reproducing.
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    So the value of human life is determined by how much one can take away from somebody else for taking it?


    Human life is as valued and preserved higher than it has been anywhere in the world for the last 1000 years. Billions of pounds are spent on healthcare and crime prevention, in this country I am less likely to be killed than most places on earth, I won't starve to death and I have free healthcare.

    It appears to be far more valued in modern Britain.
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    Do you know what would really devalue human life in modern Britain? Bringing back the death penalty.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    DAILY MAIL CARD ALERT!


    oh dear. poor.


    the US does not have a proper death penalty system.

    the US has a murder rate of roughly 15,000 a year but executes only 50. roughly.

    so, its not a deterrent.


    if all humans have equal human rights despite behaviour then what you are advocating is anarchy. are you an anarchist?
    No I'm not but you clearly do not believe in human rights as a whole.

    And yes Daily Mail card, light hearted joke.

    What are suggesting for death pen? everyone gets killed?
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    i dont recgonise the state to take away the right of the community to administer justice as it sees fit.

    the community wants the death penalty back for convicted murderers because the community is the body that suffers. not the state. the state is the arbitrator. at least it should be...the state is not the moral guardian.


    execution is not murder. it is something completely different.
    The death penalty is not a deterrent to serious crime. What you're calling for is not justice, but revenge. Besides, human rights are incompatible with the death penalty.
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    As I see it, sentences for crimes have four purposes:

    1. Deterrence - stop other people committing the same crime.

    2. Protection of the Public - stop the person committing the crime again.

    3. Rehabilitation - in addition to 2, making the person a useful member of society.

    4. Moral Justice - make the victim, their relatives and people in general 'feel' that the wrong has in some way been righted by the perpetrator being punished.

    The death penalty clearly satisfies 2, and may satisfy 4.

    A prison sentence satisfies 2 (at least for the period they are in prison) and may satisfy 3 and 4.

    No. 4, deterrence, is a difficult one. I would argue that once a sentence reaches a certain level of severity there is no additional deterrence effect of increasing it further. I think that the penalty for murder as it stands is sufficient so that the only people who commit murder:

    (a) Think they won't get caught.
    (b) Do it in a blind rage where they are not considering consequences.
    (c) Don't care what happens to them.

    In any of these three cases there is no additional deterrence achieved by increasing the sentence to the death penalty. As far as I am aware, there is no evidence to suggest that US states with the death penalty have lower numbers of murders than those which don't for example (in fact I believe it is quite the opposite, although I wouldn't want to argue causation).

    In which case, leaving aside issues of how sure we can be of someone's guilt, choosing whether to support the death penalty is largely a moral, rather than a practical choice. Does a person who kills lose the right to life themselves, or should we offer everyone the chance for redemption?
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    Do you know what would really devalue human life in modern Britain? Bringing back the death penalty.


    when the death penalty was abolished, human life was cheapened.


    before abolition, a murderer was executed for taking ahumn life, after aboliation, a murderer was given life.]


    abolition lessened the consequences of murder. thus cheapening human life in the process.

    those who are not capable of distinguishing between convicted murderers and their victims are at beast un- empathetic , at worst psychopathic.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    if all humans have equal human rights despite behaviour then what you are advocating is anarchy. are you an anarchist?
    That's exactly the essence of human rights. That they cannot be taken away as they are intrinsic to human beings.

    Do you even know what anarchy means? Anarchy means "no government" not "no law".

    Cut the far right populist propaganda. Thank you.
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    No I'm not but you clearly do not believe in human rights as a whole.

    And yes Daily Mail card, light hearted joke.

    What are suggesting for death pen? everyone gets killed?

    i only care about actual human rights---the ones that apply to everyone before they are convicted of anti human crimes like murder.

    can you really not tell the difference between the two categories?

    your version of human rights facilities violence i would suggest.
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    That's exactly the essence of human rights. That they cannot be taken away as they are intrinsic to human beings.

    Do you even know what anarchy means? Anarchy means "no government" not "no law".

    Cut the far right populist propaganda. Thank you.



    cut the daily mail card derivatives please if you can......


    again, i'll say what i just posted because it applies again to this post:


    i only care about actual human rights---the ones that apply to everyone before they are convicted of anti human crimes like murder.

    can you really not tell the difference between the two categories?

    your version of human rights facilities violence i would suggest.
 
 
 
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