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    (Original post by Pukhtun)
    Not if you kill innocent unarmed Afghan civilians for sport it doesn't...
    Yeah, I posted that before I read about the afghan civilians, sickening.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    You seem to have repeated yourself there.
    No, I don't think the death penalty for murder is right. Killing them actually costs more than imprisoning them for life (actual life), AND it doesn't solve anything, AND there's too much chance of a wrong conviction which is just horrible.
    Aside from that, I don't believe it's EVER okay to take a human life.
    Sigh...Someone who thinks killers should be free and walk the streets like nothing happened. There isn't to much chance on wrong conviction in this day and age, Like I said pull me the statistics for wrong conviction for murder in the last 5 years?
    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    I already made the point of people ending up back in prison. This is because the current system DOESN'T rehabillitate the offenders at all. At the moment, prison creates criminals out of people who made mistakes.
    We need to take a leaf out of Norway's book... They actually aim to rehabillitate, and their attitudes are much better.
    Sometimes prison isn't the answer at all.
    So you say murder is a mistake? They didn't mean to kill who they killed?
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    (Original post by ShadowConspiracy)
    Sigh...Someone who thinks killers should be free and walk the streets like nothing happened. There isn't to much chance on wrong conviction in this day and age, Like I said pull me the statistics for wrong conviction for murder in the last 5 years?

    So you say murder is a mistake? They didn't mean to kill who they killed?
    How could I give you stats on wrong convictions? If we knew they were wrong, they wouldn't be in prison...
    There's plenty of room for it in this day and age... DNA is hardly ever available.

    I wasn't just talking about murderers, I was talking about prison in general. Young people make mistakes and bad decisions, but instead on rehabillitating them and helping them become useful to society, we teach them to be proper criminals in prison.

    I didn't say I thought murderers should be walking the streets free. Don't put words into my mouth.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    the average sentence for a convicted murderer is 15 years......


    the average sentence for a convicted rapist is 7 years........



    so, life is cheap. but why?
    And yet steal some money and you will be locked away for life!!!

    Money and possessions are more highly rated in the British "justice" system than human life is. Its backwards!
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    I was talking about prison in general. Young people make mistakes and bad decisions, but instead on rehabillitating them and helping them become useful to society, we teach them to be proper criminals in prison.
    Mistakes? So a murder charge, robbery charge, assault charge,rape charge, are all possible mistakes, So your saying these people don't understand right from wrong?

    You do know majority of criminals come out with more skills to commit crimes when they've been inside, One guy went in for car theft in this documentary I watched when he was released he was taught how to steal and hot wire cars even faster and better than how he was doing before.
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    (Original post by ShadowConspiracy)
    Mistakes? So a murder charge, robbery charge, assault charge,rape charge, are all possible mistakes, So your saying these people don't understand right from wrong?

    You do know majority of criminals come out with more skills to commit crimes when they've been inside, One guy went in for car theft in this documentary I watched when he was released he was taught how to steal and hot wire cars even faster and better than how he was doing before.
    What you just said about them coming out better at being criminals... That was what I said, it was MY point! :/
    Yes... sometimes teenagers take the wrong path and make bad choices, and end up stealing or something, and end up in prison. Now if we just rehabillitated them, they would stand more of a chance of becoming better people... Puting them in prison just means they are taught how to be better at being a criminal. It doesn't help at all.


    (Original post by Smophy)
    And yet steal some money and you will be locked away for life!!!

    Money and possessions are more highly rated in the British "justice" system than human life is. Its backwards!
    Yeah, that's bad. It's left over from old laws, and is a result of a capitalist society. Back when there was a MUCH bigger wealth gap, and it was rich property owners vs. commoners, the laws were harsher for stealing and tresspassing (for example) to prioritise the upper-class citizens and keep their interests above that of the general public. (People would be hanged for stealing, and sometimes get much more lax sentences for killing another peasant).
    :/ Dodgy.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Now if we just rehabillitated them, they would stand more of a chance of becoming better people
    No, If we start with the parents first for raising a child like that? Discipline at home first not all this bull**** about you can't hit your kids if they've done wrong, I was hit with the belt when growing up and thank my parents for it, it kept me on the straight and narrow, kids who wern't hit usually end up causing trouble in teenage years as they think they can get away with it.
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    (Original post by ShadowConspiracy)
    No, If we start with the parents first for raising a child like that? Discipline at home first not all this bull**** about you can't hit your kids if they've done wrong, I was hit with the belt when growing up and thank my parents for it, it kept me on the straight and narrow, kids who wern't hit usually end up causing trouble in teenage years as they think they can get away with it.
    You don't have to hit children to discipline them properly... People just don't do it at ALL.
    The thing is, I know people who were hit as kids and turned out to be violent people. That's not exactly straight forward then.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    You don't have to hit children to discipline them properly... People just don't do it at ALL..
    So you'd rather let them run riot?
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    (Original post by ShadowConspiracy)
    So you'd rather let them run riot?
    Did you not read what I said?
    You can discipline without hitting... Especially hitting with a belt! Of course, discipline children and teach them the rules; that doesn't mean beating them.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Did you not read what I said?
    You can discipline without hitting... Especially hitting with a belt! Of course, discipline children and teach them the rules; that doesn't mean beating them.
    beating makes for better discipline. If you look at the older people in society who were brought up under far stricter measures, they are generally better, more well-rounded individuals. 'Rules' just make kids want to rebel more, and be even more anti-establishment. They can argue with rules, but they cant argue with a good old-fashioned beating.
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    (Original post by Oswald Mosley)
    beating makes for better discipline. If you look at the older people in society who were brought up under far stricter measures, they are generally better, more well-rounded individuals. 'Rules' just make kids want to rebel more, and be even more anti-establishment. They can argue with rules, but they cant argue with a good old-fashioned beating.
    Older people are more well-rounded? Definitely not true, it just depends WHICH older people you look at.
    I know plenty who were brought up in a "strict" way and turned out to be ********s.

    Beating does not make them well-rounded. It can actually make them violent.
    You can discipline without beating... You just have to do it right. Lots of people succeed at this too.
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    (Original post by Noodlepants)
    All Rapsits/Paedophiles/Murderers (perhaps only people who've killed more than once) should be sentenced to death. Use Lie detectors/numerous trials/whatever makes it "fair".
    Save us some cash too...

    Simples

    EDIT: I just knew all the do-gooders would neg me.
    Most serial killers pass a lie detector :fyi:
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    .

    Beating does not make them well-rounded. It can actually make them violent.
    Well that's just plain false. There is a lot more street crime/violence/stabbings today than ever before. And the people committing these crimes aren't the ones who have strict parents who may occasionally give them a slap for bad behavior, they are the ones whose parents don't give a damn.
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    (Original post by Oswald Mosley)
    Well that's just plain false. There is a lot more street crime/violence/stabbings today than ever before. And the people committing these crimes aren't the ones who have strict parents who may occasionally give them a slap for bad behavior, they are the ones whose parents don't give a damn.
    Can you prove that? no.
    The violent people I knew at school (and since) were those with bad home lives (they were beaten, didn't have a good emotional bond, etc)... Those of us that were disciplined properly (mostly) were the quiet ones who tried to stay out of trouble.
    Of course there can be the odd different case, but that's generally the pattern. If you are violent towards your child, you're generally teaching them that violence is ok.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Can you prove that? no.
    The violent people I knew at school (and since) were those with bad home lives (they were beaten, didn't have a good emotional bond, etc)... Those of us that were disciplined properly (mostly) were the quiet ones who tried to stay out of trouble.
    Of course there can be the odd different case, but that's generally the pattern. If you are violent towards your child, you're generally teaching them that violence is ok.
    No you're not, you are teaching them that bad behaviour is wrong, and will be punished. The child associates the bad behaviour with pain, and so will be unlikely to repeat the behaviour in future, it's called negative reinforcement. the type you're talking about is when, for example, a child has a drunken father who lashes out for no apparent reason. The child then associates the feeling of vulnerability with the pain, and in future uses bad, anti-establishment type behavior to try and put themself in a position of power, rather than vulnerability. And yes it can be proven that today there is more street crime/violence than ever, it is a fact.
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    (Original post by Oswald Mosley)
    No you're not, you are teaching them that bad behaviour is wrong, and will be punished. The child associates the bad behaviour with pain, and so will be unlikely to repeat the behaviour in future, it's called negative reinforcement. the type you're talking about is when, for example, a child has a drunken father who lashes out for no apparent reason. The child then associates the feeling of vulnerability with the pain, and in future uses bad, anti-establishment type behavior to try and put themself in a position of power, rather than vulnerability. And yes it can be proven that today there is more street crime/violence than ever, it is a fact.
    I didn't mean can you prove that there's more violence now, and you know it.
    Jesus.
    No, it's not just people who had drunk parents.

    But clearly, we're going round in circles, and I'm getting bored.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    I didn't mean can you prove that there's more violence now, and you know it.
    Jesus.
    No, it's not just people who had drunk parents.

    But clearly, we're going round in circles, and I'm getting bored.
    I didn't say it was, which was why I said 'for example'. But generally the people you are talking about (people who copy violence from their parents) come from houses of disorder, anger and a lack of morals/principles. If you raise a child in a stable home, reward them for good behavior and give beatings for bad, while maintain a positive moral code, there is no chance the child will grow up violent. To completely dismiss physical punishment when it as worked fine for decades, producing better results than what we seeing with our overly-lenient tendencies today, is just plain ignorant.
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    (Original post by Oswald Mosley)
    I didn't say it was, which was why I said 'for example'. But generally the people you are talking about (people who copy violence from their parents) come from houses of disorder, anger and a lack of morals/principles. If you raise a child in a stable home, reward them for good behavior and give beatings for bad, while maintain a positive moral code, there is no chance the child will grow up violent. To completely dismiss physical punishment when it as worked fine for decades, producing better results than what we seeing with our overly-lenient tendencies today, is just plain ignorant.
    Times move on... Plenty of things "worked" in the past, but we have moved on and found better ways.
    There IS a chance that your example can produce violence individuals, because I have witnessed it.

    We now know more about psychology and alike, and so can find ways to discipline children and teach them right from wrong without causing them physical harm. It's quite simple.
    It clearly worked for me and my family, and a lot of people I know.
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    (Original post by Mess.)
    Most serial killers pass a lie detector :fyi:
    I don't care, just kill them all.
 
 
 
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