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    (Original post by brabzzz)
    ^ Rubbish. The uni/degree class/form GETS you that interview in the first place.
    Exactly.

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    (Original post by Platocrates)
    I'd hate to think that elitism still exists.

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    It's all a load of crap.

    X can't get a job because he didn't go to Y university.

    What crap.
    Not quite. Rephrase:

    X will find it much harder to get a job at certain kinds of organizations (such as investment banks, top law firms and other high-paying employers) because he attended Q University, as opposed to anyone else who attended any of the following ten universities: Y, Z, A, B, C, D, E, etc.

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    For the record, academic and intellectual elitism DOES exist. It is only fair that students realise this stark reality.
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    So why for example do 'top' scholars, quote 'lesser' scholars work then?

    Are professors all on a similar level in their particular area?

    If not, then is the whole notion of professorship a shambles?
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    Because it's good work.
    Isn't everyone talking about getting a job in finance/something pretty much unrelated to your degree as opposed to academia anyway?
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    (Original post by lawgrad)
    Exactly.

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    Not quite. Rephrase:

    X will find it much harder to get a job at certain kinds of organizations (such as investment banks, top law firms and other high-paying employers) because he attended Q University, as opposed to anyone else who attended any of the following ten universities: Y, Z, A, B, C, D, E, etc.

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    For the record, academic and intellectual elitism DOES exist. It is only fair that students realise this stark reality.
    Yeah I'm sure it does exist it's just not as rife as some people make it out to be. If it was the graduates from unis with "lesser reputations" would all be shelve stackers or on the dole wouldn't they? It's not the end of the world, and would you really want to work somewhere who didn't value you as an individual but merely as someone who went to Oxbridge? I wouldn't.
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    You can't just put a line in the sand and say "These unis are crap, and these are good", there is a broad spectrum of quality, and you have to compare subject for subject, university for university, grade for grade.

    For instance, you cannot say "Birmingham is better than Kent", because Kent might have an excellent English department, better than Birminghams, but Birmingham might have a better History department than Kent.

    If the universities are sufficently far from one another on all subjects, then it's fair to say that one is better than the other. For instance, Cambridge is better than Thames Valley in all subjects Cambridge does. Is Oxford better than Imperial? Impossible to say unless you say the subject and the level you're talking about. For instance, Oxford has an excellent maths department, but Imperial has a superior theoretical physics postgrad department. You need to be specific.

    Similarly with grades. I have a 2.i in maths from Cambridge. Is this better or worse than a 2.i in maths from Aston. I feel very confident in saying it is. Having looked at some of the past exam papers Aston have online, I feel confident in saying it's hugely superior. Perhaps in other subjects the distance between the universities isn't so much.
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    I think it depends upon the career you are intending to go into.

    If it is something like law or medicine, the university you go to absolutely makes all the difference, elitism is alive and well and the firms are not even discreet about it.

    I was told outright by the graduate recruitment officer at the drinks reception of my vacation scheme that I was accepted out of `loyalty` as they are a firm based in Leeds (Im at Leeds Met, and expected a 1:1 classification) and sure enough, everyone else there was Oxbridge, Durham, etc. I didn't get offered an interview for a training contract either.

    Some firms will also only take students who have completed their LPC course at certain institutions such as BPP, although this is less widespread.

    A friend of mine used to be in admin at a smaller law firm, and when they got applications, it was her task to split them into piles - redbrick in one, ex-poly / less regarded in another. These piles were then split into degree classifications, and the jobs then filled first come first served - so if you had a first from an ex-poly, you're application might not even have been read by a graduate recruitment officer if they found enough satisfactory people from redbricks. :eek:
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    (Original post by Platocrates)
    I'd hate to think that elitism still exists.
    That is remarkably naive.
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    Just read the posts to this thread and i'm worried now lol. I am at portsmouth university, got three A's and a B for A level but chose this university not for its rank (obviously!) but for the course and most importantly because I knew this is where i'd perform my best.
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    You will find that if you have a good degree class and you have the CV to back it up then you shouldn't have a problem getting a job. However if you want to be in a top city firm then you have to be the best of the best and that means getting a good degree from a good university - i.e. the more prestigious an employer likes to think of themselves as being the more elitist they will be. Most employers are not that elitist at all.

    As for law - many firms will sponsor you to do the LPC so they get to decide where you do it - this may look like favouritism in the end, but it is not as you have already applied and got the job before training.
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    For God's sake. Why not choose the university you'll be happier at? I chose Kent even though I had an offer from Lancaster, which has a better English department, but wasn't as nice a place. A degree is a degree, and to be quite honest, if UCL rejected you you're probably not up to gaining a first at Kent.
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    (Original post by Platocrates)
    Most Oxbridge students are there through privilege as opposed to anything else. That's the joke.
    No, that's the joke.


    Employers are going to want the best, there's no doubt about that at all and if they have perceptions about which universities are better than others (whether they are right or wrong) then they're going to follow them when they can. Most of them also percieve 1sts as being far ahead of 2:1 and 2:2 degrees so they're going to favour them as well, different employers are going to put a different emphasis on each factor.
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    (Original post by wilbur)
    Ultimately a degree is only as valuable as what you plan to do with it.
    So, the BA/MA which a late friend of mine got after retiring isn't "valuable" because she didn't do anything with it afterwards.

    Get a grip. Knowledge is valuable regardless of what you do afterwards. It would be really cool if someone went around all the universities and served as the Academic Inquisitor. They would ask people why they are at university, and if they respond primarily with "to get a good job", they'd be zapped out of the university. All that would be left would be the people there for whom that is a beneficial side effect.

    There'd be no shortage of places at Oxbridge then.
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    (Original post by Platocrates)
    So for example, Professor X isn't as distinguished as Professor Y because X got his doctorate at Manchester whereas Y got his at Cambridge?

    Yet they are both still experts in the same field?
    Remember: what goes on in research is almost completely removed from what goes on outside. This university may get more graduates in to the City banks than that university, but that doesn't necessarily correlate with the quality of the researchers they produce. For instance, in the field which I'm planning on doing my Bachelor's dissertation in, the most well-known and respected professor in the field teaches at a State College that's not particularly high up in the U.S. News & World Reports rankings. Does that make his research any less cited, or any less relevant? No. He's still one of the world's experts on the subject, and his writing still forms the basis for the field at every level - turning up fourth when you type in the name of the field in to Google Scholar.

    The hustle and bustle of business graduates become high-flying executives is almost totally irrelevant to the actual business of academia which is finding stuff out. There is an elitism there, but it's to do with the actual quality and results of the research and the quality of the thinking, not to do with the A-level grades of the undergraduates or how many first or second class degrees they hand out each year.
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    Why do people have such a problem with employers (or anyone for that matter) distinguishing between degrees?

    Some degrees are harder than others, employers know this, and will judge accordingly. It's also fairly obvious that certain courses (Physics for example) will be much easier at one University in comparison to another.

    We're NOT all the same, we all have DIFFERENT abilities. Our degrees reflect this.
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    (Original post by ninetails)
    someone asked me this question in school and i began thinking - especially since i got rejected from the best and my favourite university i applied too.
    since i got rejected i thing its the degree you get from there - surely a first class honours in Kent is worth a lil more that a 2-1 from UCL?
    i'd much rather have a 2:1 at ucl then a first from kent. the university you go to is much more important than the degree you get. i'd rather get a 2nd from cambridge than a first from kent.
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    A lot of government agencies now don't know what university you went or what degree a person has got they don't even know the classification. You have to meet a certain critieria to get through to the interview panal once you're through the interviewees don't know the first thing about you.

    They make you do lots of tests, discussions and role play exercise and they elimate the weak candidates. This is done so the interviewees have no presumptions of the person.

    The best quality candidates who complete the exercises will be taken on regardless of the university or classification they got.
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    (Original post by AlphaNumeric)
    You can't just put a line in the sand and say "These unis are crap, and these are good", there is a broad spectrum of quality, and you have to compare subject for subject, university for university, grade for grade.

    For instance, you cannot say "Birmingham is better than Kent", because Kent might have an excellent English department, better than Birminghams, but Birmingham might have a better History department than Kent.

    If the universities are sufficently far from one another on all subjects, then it's fair to say that one is better than the other. For instance, Cambridge is better than Thames Valley in all subjects Cambridge does. Is Oxford better than Imperial? Impossible to say unless you say the subject and the level you're talking about. For instance, Oxford has an excellent maths department, but Imperial has a superior theoretical physics postgrad department. You need to be specific.

    Similarly with grades. I have a 2.i in maths from Cambridge. Is this better or worse than a 2.i in maths from Aston. I feel very confident in saying it is. Having looked at some of the past exam papers Aston have online, I feel confident in saying it's hugely superior. Perhaps in other subjects the distance between the universities isn't so much.
    i agree with you mostly, but some employers (non academia related ones) only know the reputation of how good a university is, as opposed to knowing how good every single department is at every university, so i'd rather have a 2:1 for a bad course (ranked lowly) at cambridge than a 1st from a good course (ranked higher than the same course at cambridge) from leicester.
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    I wish that was the case for me, I tick most of them boxes depending on what the UCAS points were.

    Oh well its just the luck of the draw. Too many people are going for too few jobs but its not really a problem now anyway.
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    (Original post by Platocrates)
    Most Oxbridge students are there through privilege as opposed to anything else.
    Sshhhh! Don't tell everyone.

    You're totally right of course - all the entrance exams, interviews and required grades are just a front. We just get Daddy (the 2nd Earl of Prestatyn - 745th in line for the throne, in my case) to throw the University a couple of fivers.

    Just incase you haven't twigged - your sarcasm detector should be off the scale right now.
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    I think that a student from a lesser know university is going to have a better work ethic than a student from oxford etc, the student from a lesser known uni knows that they are going to work dam hard in their degree in order to be seen by employers. They are prob going to have a job as well to fund uni so they will get a taste of what work is actually like.
 
 
 
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