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    (Original post by december2)
    Can someone explain to me if Graduate Schemes are paid or not? In my future hypothetical situation, I will be graduating after my 12 month program in September 2012, and I'll need to find something by the end of September.

    If I try to secure a place in a company's Graduate Scheme, will these pay more than the $20,000 requirement to obtain the Tier 2 visa? Short of applying and getting hired to a full position somewhere, I'm trying to find out what my other options are, as if I understand correctly getting an internship wouldn't suffice because most likely pay much less than the $20,000 for the T2 visa requirement.
    Graduate schemes are paid - it's the same as a full-time job but with lots of training thrown in. The companies expectation is usually that at the end of the scheme (most schemes are two years) you will have proven yourself on the scheme and capable of rising quickly in that company to higher paid jobs. Salaries are usually over £20k a year - some start over £25k a year.

    I've never seen an internship that pays £20k a year but let me know if you find one
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    (Original post by SemperVivum)
    Graduate schemes are paid - it's the same as a full-time job but with lots of training thrown in. The companies expectation is usually that at the end of the scheme (most schemes are two years) you will have proven yourself on the scheme and capable of rising quickly in that company to higher paid jobs. Salaries are usually over £20k a year - some start over £25k a year.

    I've never seen an internship that pays £20k a year but let me know if you find one
    Yes internships usually have terrible pay, that is what I mean

    So essentially, future students like me will only have two options. Either a) Get selected for a Graduate Scheme, or 2) Somehow get directly employed, both before the day you graduate. Kind of puts the pressure on, doesn't it?
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    (Original post by december2)
    So essentially, future students like me will only have two options. Either a) Get selected for a Graduate Scheme, or 2) Somehow get directly employed, both before the day you graduate. Kind of puts the pressure on, doesn't it?
    The grad scheme route is the strongest in my opinion. If you apply in-country on a student visa then it becomes very easy for the employer - much more so than with the PSW as no quotas or switching. The only downside of the grad scheme route for people coming for 1-year Masters courses is some open as early as September (particularly in banking, finance, business and management) so you literally need to apply as soon as you arrive - companies sometimes take an age to go through the recruitment process so you can apply in September but not get a final decision til February / March. Applying as soon as you arrive favours native English speakers and non native English speakers who have become pretty much fluent, as well as those with work experience and evidence of leadership and teamwork as employers in the UK like these competencies. People who lack confidence in English or don't have any work experience will struggle with early grad scheme applications. For those who wait til they have almost finished their course, the recruitment process may not be completed before the student visa expires.

    Direct entry can work too - though I think it can be harder going after a job when there is only one or two vacancies with a particular company compared to a grad scheme where they often recruit in volume (vacancies of 50-200 aren't uncommon in some companies).

    Pressure's a good thing, no? All that adrenaline coarsing through the body!
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    (Original post by SemperVivum)
    Under the current PSW or the new system that is coming in April 2012?
    under the 2012 system ..
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    hello all, I sent an email to the uni asking them how straight forward would it be for employers to hire international students under the new scheme. This is their answer, basically what we already knew:

    "the university sector in the UK is as disappointed as international students that the government are changing the Post-Study work visa scheme in April 2012.

    This work route will close in April 2012. We do not yet have the details of what will replace it. However, it looks as if you will need to meet most of the requirements of Tier 2, except for the Resident Labour Market Test, or of a new student entrepreneur route which does not yet exist. This means that a Tier 2 employer will not have to show that the job was advertised and no UK or EEA nationals could do it. However, the job will have to be a graduate level job with a specified minimum wage, and the employer must have a Tier 2 licence.

    We cannot say unfortunately how this will work out in practice in the future.

    I am sorry this is vague, but we do not yet have full information about the government's changes and how they will affect employment."

    The only news to me here is that nobody knows how the new scheme will be...I thought we already knew! Didn't you?
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    (Original post by SemperVivum)
    The grad scheme route is the strongest in my opinion. If you apply in-country on a student visa then it becomes very easy for the employer - much more so than with the PSW as no quotas or switching. The only downside of the grad scheme route for people coming for 1-year Masters courses is some open as early as September (particularly in banking, finance, business and management) so you literally need to apply as soon as you arrive - companies sometimes take an age to go through the recruitment process so you can apply in September but not get a final decision til February / March. Applying as soon as you arrive favours native English speakers and non native English speakers who have become pretty much fluent, as well as those with work experience and evidence of leadership and teamwork as employers in the UK like these competencies. People who lack confidence in English or don't have any work experience will struggle with early grad scheme applications. For those who wait til they have almost finished their course, the recruitment process may not be completed before the student visa expires.

    Direct entry can work too - though I think it can be harder going after a job when there is only one or two vacancies with a particular company compared to a grad scheme where they often recruit in volume (vacancies of 50-200 aren't uncommon in some companies).

    Pressure's a good thing, no? All that adrenaline coarsing through the body!
    What is the grad scheme route? Does anyone have any info on it, like a website etc? What are the rules? Thanks!
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    (Original post by helma)
    What is the grad scheme route? Does anyone have any info on it, like a website etc? What are the rules? Thanks!
    Just look at websites like Targetjobs.com and milkround.com - that's where all the grad schemes get advertised. The most adverts come out in September / October - there are some around now but nothing like the number of vacancies in the autumn.

    There are no 'rules' as such - most employers want a 2:1 (some will accept a 2:2), it helps to have work experience, and evidence of the competencies they usually seek such as leadership, teamwork, communication etc...
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    (Original post by helma)
    hello all, I sent an email to the uni asking them how straight forward would it be for employers to hire international students under the new scheme. This is their answer, basically what we already knew:

    "the university sector in the UK is as disappointed as international students that the government are changing the Post-Study work visa scheme in April 2012.

    This work route will close in April 2012. We do not yet have the details of what will replace it. However, it looks as if you will need to meet most of the requirements of Tier 2, except for the Resident Labour Market Test, or of a new student entrepreneur route which does not yet exist. This means that a Tier 2 employer will not have to show that the job was advertised and no UK or EEA nationals could do it. However, the job will have to be a graduate level job with a specified minimum wage, and the employer must have a Tier 2 licence.

    We cannot say unfortunately how this will work out in practice in the future.

    I am sorry this is vague, but we do not yet have full information about the government's changes and how they will affect employment."

    The only news to me here is that nobody knows how the new scheme will be...I thought we already knew! Didn't you?
    Other universities are saying quite clearly what the new scheme will look like. Perhaps that one is a bit slow on the uptake!
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    (Original post by Ramox3)
    Does anybody knows if Graduate Schemes will be willing to sponsor international students for a tier 2 ?
    The list of sponsors is 2,755 pages long - under the 2012 system there will be plenty of graduate schemes available to international students as well as direct entry jobs. To read the list of sponsor yourself, go to this website and then on the right hand side of the page under 'related documents' click 'Register of sponsors - employers'

    The new system makes international students far more attractive to employers as its so much more straightfoward (as long as the student gets the job while on a student visa, applies in-country, and the job pays £20k plus).
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    how is this more "straightforward" ?

    Under PSW, firms need not even apply for a visa, now they have to.

    And I don't buy this no market test BS.

    I think posters who have pointed out that only listed shortage jobs will be exempt.

    I blame the politicians for taking the cowardly route to blame IS for the immigration problems caused by their own type.

    How is an IS paying up 20k a year responsible for some genocidal dictator posing as a bogus asylum seeker ?

    How is an IS paying up 20k a year responsible for some previous immigrants bringing over their whole clan ?

    I am not saying they are good or bad simply that IS have nothing to do with this and cannot be held responsible

    They could have taken a different route, so many options:

    - limit the PSW to non ex poly
    - limit by grade
    - limit by occupation type

    etc etc

    I mean wtf, UK is crying out for scientists, and ex commonwealth have little choice:

    In Malaysia there is a racist bar to higher education preventing non malay muslims

    We have to a large extenet rely on UK.

    Why don't you intervene huh ? what about our human rights of equal treatment ?

    This a cheap cowardly shot at vulnerable sector working in conjunction with the even more cowardly IS governments.

    We need better representation.

    We need backing of the bigger IS nations like China, Russia and Brasil, then we'll see who bullies who.
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    (Original post by Txi)
    how is this more "straightforward" ?

    Under PSW, firms need not even apply for a visa, now they have to..
    No they don't - if they are on the tier 2 sponsor list. It's the student who applies for the visa.

    (Original post by Txi)
    And I don't buy this no market test BS..I think posters who have pointed out that only listed shortage jobs will be exempt.
    Thankfully, your thoughts are of no relevance - the new policy is clear. There is no labour market test for the new visa if the student applies in-country, gets the job when they are on a student visa, and the job pays £20k or more.

    The rest of your post is nonsense.
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    (Original post by SemperVivum)
    No they don't - if they are on the tier 2 sponsor list. It's the student who applies for the visa.



    Thankfully, your thoughts are of no relevance - the new policy is clear. There is no labour market test for the new visa if the student applies in-country, gets the job when they are on a student visa, and the job pays £20k or more.

    The rest of your post is nonsense.

    We'll see about that.

    And don't just spout it prove" rest of my post is nonsense " or are you doing a good impression of your liar politicians ?
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    (Original post by SemperVivum)
    The list of sponsors is 2,755 pages long - under the 2012 system there will be plenty of graduate schemes available to international students as well as direct entry jobs. To read the list of sponsor yourself, go to this website and then on the right hand side of the page under 'related documents' click 'Register of sponsors - employers'

    The new system makes international students far more attractive to employers as its so much more straightfoward (as long as the student gets the job while on a student visa, applies in-country, and the job pays £20k plus).
    Appreciated !!
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    Wannabe UKBA official.

    joker
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    (Original post by Txi)
    Wannabe UKBA official.

    joker
    You have one person who is giving clearly written information and advice and then there is you. I know whose posts I'd take more seriously.
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    (Original post by SemperVivum)
    Other universities are saying quite clearly what the new scheme will look like. Perhaps that one is a bit slow on the uptake!
    I just heard back from KCL and they said the same thing: things are still being drafted so it is not that clear yet. Not sure what to think, after I read a report on what the government are doing to their own people there in the UK (boycotting needy and disabled people so they lose their benefits), I don't think they would think twice to screw international students over...
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    (Original post by helma)
    what the government are doing to their own people there in the UK (boycotting needy and disabled people so they lose their benefits), I don't think they would think twice to screw international students over...
    I don't think the government intends to screw international students over - they are a major source of income to British universities and British employers need well a qualified workforce. If the visa changes concern you and are not satisfied with the new visa arrangements as they stand, then look to other countries to study; it is after all a global education market.

    As far boycotting needy and disabled people, that's a matter of contention in the UK as we have very high rates of people claiming state benefits for disability and incapacity. The current government believe that many of those claiming the benefits are not disabled or incapacitated but choose to claim that they are to access higher levels of state benefits than they'd get if they were simply unemployed. In a recent pilot of the new benefit changes, reassessing 1.5 million people who were claiming incapacity benefit, 30% were found to be fully fit for work, 39% were found to be able to work with additional support, and the remaining 31% were agreed to be incapable of work due to disability.

    I'm not a supporter of the current government but I do feel that the incapacity and disability benefits system has been open to abuse for some time. Reform is warranted, though I am not convinced that the reforms adequately protect those with fluctuating health problems.

    PS I just read back on your posts and your plans to study international development. You will struggle to find any graduate schemes in the UK that are focused on international development. Direct entry jobs in international development are often unpaid or low paid as the job market is saturated with people trying to break into the 'industry' and willing to accept these conditions. You would therefore most likely not meet the £20k a year salary criteria for the new post April 2012 visa. I would look elsewhere if you want to stay and work in the country that you complete your studies in.
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    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...rt-of-comments
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    (Original post by SemperVivum)

    As far boycotting needy and disabled people, that's a matter of contention in the UK as we have very high rates of people claiming state benefits for disability and incapacity. The current government believe that many of those claiming the benefits are not disabled or incapacitated but choose to claim that they are to access higher levels of state benefits than they'd get if they were simply unemployed. In a recent pilot of the new benefit changes, reassessing 1.5 million people who were claiming incapacity benefit, 30% were found to be fully fit for work, 39% were found to be able to work with additional support, and the remaining 31% were agreed to be incapable of work due to disability.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...rt-of-comments
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    Which the DWP clearly denies in the article.
 
 
 
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