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    We don't need any more bleeding heart liberals in this country. We'd be bankrupt like Ireland and Portugal if we didn't tackle the benefits culture in the UK. For too long the UK has been the mecca for asylum seekers and visa hangovers just because of our generosity with social security benefits. Do you know that we even pay child benefit to people who come from the EU for jobs when their children haven't even stepped foot in the UK? The Polish economy would collapse if it wasn't for the state benefits issued in the UK being sent back there. There are so many ripoffs of the benefits system that it would be a joke if it wasn't draining the financial life out of the UK. The benefit reforms being introduced don't go far enough.
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    I really don't want to get into a debate / argument about the benefits system / culture in the UK. If anyone has visa questions I'm happy to do what I can to answer them.
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    (Original post by december2)
    Can someone explain to me if Graduate Schemes are paid or not? In my future hypothetical situation, I will be graduating after my 12 month program in September 2012, and I'll need to find something by the end of September.

    If I try to secure a place in a company's Graduate Scheme, will these pay more than the $20,000 requirement to obtain the Tier 2 visa? Short of applying and getting hired to a full position somewhere, I'm trying to find out what my other options are, as if I understand correctly getting an internship wouldn't suffice because most likely pay much less than the $20,000 for the T2 visa requirement.
    If you are in Graduate Schemes, if you want to apply the Tier 2 with this company, you need to confirm one thing first: if they have sponsor license, which is necessary for you to get a space. If they have, you can try to get the salary above 20,000pounds annual salary, in this case, I think $20000 is still lower than the standard that will enter into force in April 2012.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    the working holiday (youth mobility) route. That would give you two years unrestricted work in the UK and is open to Canadians.
    Excellent post and comments; you are right that this is just the sort of migration that is being strangled off.

    The old working holiday scheme did not allow a visitor to hold any job other than subsistence level and temporary one as the visitor was expected to really be onlong-term holiday and working only some of the time in order to fund that holiday. I have had to turn away several Aussies who expected to be able to take up full time, professional emplyment on such a visa, despite the fact that theri passport was stamped with words to the effect it wasn't a work permit and didn't entitle them to such work. I have no experience with the new scheme but suspect it could be similar. The other snag in this case is that you cannot get one if you are already in the country.
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    (Original post by SemperVivum)
    Which the DWP clearly denies in the article.
    Oh, then it must be all a bunch of lies, if they are denying...

    Anyways, more news from another university (LSE), which is no news actually:

    "the landscape is changing and it is very difficult to know exactly what the outcomes will be in a year and half's time. We have had the latest guidance on the future rules last Thursday, so we are only now adjusting to the changes. The government office in charge of making these changes have not indicated the precise date we will know more, though they have indicated that it should be soon."

    I will post more as I hear from them!
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    (Original post by helma)
    Oh, then it must be all a bunch of lies, if they are denying...

    Anyways, more news from another university (LSE), which is no news actually:

    "the landscape is changing and it is very difficult to know exactly what the outcomes will be in a year and half's time. We have had the latest guidance on the future rules last Thursday, so we are only now adjusting to the changes. The government office in charge of making these changes have not indicated the precise date we will know more, though they have indicated that it should be soon."

    I will post more as I hear from them!

    Keep on their backs! :whip: It must be so frustrating for people waiting to hear the official response from their chosen universities.
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    (Original post by SemperVivum)
    Keep on their backs! :whip: It must be so frustrating for people waiting to hear the official response from their chosen universities.
    Not from the universities, it is the official response from the government, their decision, which has not been made yet. You seem very very upset when you are contradicted, but you have to accept that you don't know it all - not even the universities do.
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    (Original post by helma)
    You seem very very upset when you are contradicted, but you have to accept that you don't know it all
    I'm not upset in the least. I have joint UK/US citizenship so none of this affects me. If I was an international student and got caught up in the PSW cancellation hysteria then I might be concerned. However, the universities were given clear guidance on the changes from the government over a week ago (as your e-mail from the LSE states) but some are not being as forthcoming as others in providing this guidance to students. This is a shame and unnecessary in my mind. I do wonder if the universities are trying to think of a more palatable way of 'selling' the changes to prospective students for courses that do not traditionally feed into graduate schemes - as these are the students who are adversely affected by the end of the PSW and may be better served studying in other education markets.
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    PS Helper
    (Original post by SemperVivum)
    I do wonder if the universities are trying to think of a more palatable way of 'selling' the changes to prospective students for courses that do not traditionally feed into graduate schemes - as these are the students who are adversely affected by the end of the PSW and may be better served studying in other education markets.
    What a suspicious mind you have!

    I heard the same as you at university about the introduction of the uncapped tier 2 route with no labour market test as long as the student applies in-country, on a student visa, gets the jobs with a tier 2 sponsor company, and meets the £20k salary requirement.

    I agree it is good for those aiming for the graduate schemes, but far less good for example for people such as psychology graduates who need to gain work experience after graduation to access higher training. Quite often this work experience is undertaken on a voluntary basis or on pay scale of £12-18k a year and at least a couple of years experience doing this type of work is needed to access clinical psychology training programmes, or training in the other psychology specialties. Psychology is not unique in this, and it is common for graduates aiming to break into many fields (including art history, museums and gallery work, media / journalism, public relations, international development, fashion etc) to have to take unpaid or poorly paid internships after graduation to improve their employability.

    In fairness to the universities, the International Students Officer at my talk did say that the dying days of the PSW have not been fully clarified, particularly in relation to the availability of switching to the tier 2 once the new tier 2 system is in place (for example, if you can switch from PSW to tier 2 after April 2012, is this uncapped with no labour market test as the new tier 2 route is? This is not at all clear yet). We we also told that there are issues around the newly proposed 5 year limit for sub PhD level studies (i.e. undergraduate and masters level studies) as while medicine and dentistry have been excluded it would affect other subject areas, particularly where students spend a year in industry as part of their course and where students often want to follow up undergraduate study with masters level study to gain professional memberships / accreditation.

    Watch this space!
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    (Original post by OrmondDrone)
    The Polish economy would collapse if it wasn't for the state benefits issued in the UK being sent back there.
    Yes, clearly the Polish economy relies on British benefits to survive. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by domino0806)
    Yes, clearly the Polish economy relies on British benefits to survive. :rolleyes:
    The Polish economy is undoubtedly propped up by the massive benefits it recieves from being in the EU. Easter European countries take massive dips out of the western european tax payer
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    (Original post by Atheist Britain)
    The Polish economy is undoubtedly propped up by the massive benefits it recieves from being in the EU. Easter European countries take massive dips out of the western european tax payer
    That's very much different than saying that the Polish economy is somehow reliant on Polish immigrants claiming benefits in Britain and sending them home, which is just ridiculous.
    And yes, Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU cohesion funds (not on a per capita basis), however saying the Polish economy is propped up by them is also not particularly true. Poland receives ca. 10 billion euros of cohesion funds a year, a very small fraction of total GDP and the economy would hardly collapse without them.
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    (Original post by domino0806)
    That's very much different than saying that the Polish economy is somehow reliant on Polish immigrants claiming benefits in Britain and sending them home, which is just ridiculous.
    And yes, Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU cohesion funds (not on a per capita basis), however saying the Polish economy is propped up by them is also not particularly true. Poland receives ca. 10 billion euros of cohesion funds a year, a very small fraction of total GDP and the economy would hardly collapse without them.
    In 2009 the taxpayers of Poland received from the European Union 152 euros per head over what they contributed. Since its accession to the EU the country has received from the European Union EUR 19361 million over what it has contributed.
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    (Original post by Atheist Britain)
    In 2009 the taxpayers of Poland received from the European Union 152 euros per head over what they contributed. Since its accession to the EU the country has received from the European Union EUR 19361 million over what it has contributed. Select a year in the upper right-hand corner to see details for other years.

    Poland and other Eastern European countries and their begging bowls should have been turned away at the doors of the EU.

    I might as wel find a pole in the street and give him 152 Euros, and cut out the middle man.
    Really, well, almost the entirety of Wales, large swathes of Northern England and Scotland are net beneficiaries of EU cohesion funds. If Common Agricultural Policy payments were not taken into account the UK would be a net beneficiary of EU funds itself. Also I don't see you moaning about paying for the Portuguese, Greeks, Irish and Spaniards who are also net recipients, you're just a racist little twerp.
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    (Original post by domino0806)
    Really, well, almost the entirety of Wales, large swathes of Northern England and Scotland are net beneficiaries of EU cohesion funds. If Common Agricultural Policy payments were not taken into account the UK would be a net beneficiary of EU funds itself. Also I don't see you moaning about paying for the Portuguese, Greeks, Irish and Spaniards who are also net recipients, you're just a racist little twerp.
    Britain pays more in EU funds than it recieves, you can find the figures anywhere. Has nothing to dow with racism :confused:

    Oh but thats right, call them racist and you win the argument:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Atheist Britain)
    Britain pays more in EU funds than it recieves, you can find the figures anywhere. Has nothing to dow with racism :confused:

    Oh but thats right, call them racist and you win the argument:rolleyes:
    No, I'm saying you singled out "Poland and Eastern Europeans" as erm, "begging", whilst the Portuguese and Greeks receive more EU money per head. The UK is only a net contributor as it has a negligible agricultural sector and doesn't receive much back through CAP.
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    (Original post by domino0806)
    No, I'm saying you singled out "Poland and Eastern Europeans" as erm, "begging", whilst the Portuguese and Greeks receive more EU money per head. The UK is only a net contributor as it has a negligible agricultural sector and doesn't receive much back through CAP.
    Negligable agriculture ? Britian is one of the most efficient contributers of agriculture in europe.

    Portugal and greece are as bad as Eastern Europe. It proves my point that we should get out of the EU.
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    (Original post by Atheist Britain)
    Negligable agriculture ? Britian is one of the most efficient contributers of agriculture in europe.

    Portugal and greece are as bad as Eastern Europe. It proves my point that we should get out of the EU.
    And what do you suggest the UK would do if it left the EU? The benefits of free trade alone far outweigh a measly ~£8bln pa contribution.
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    (Original post by domino0806)
    And what do you suggest the UK would do if it left the EU? The benefits of free trade alone far outweigh a measly ~£8bln pa contribution.
    Why not have a free trade agreement like Norway or Switzerland. Since when is it neccessary to be in the EU to enjoy free trade ?
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    (Original post by Atheist Britain)
    Why not have a free trade agreement like Norway or Switzerland. Since when is it neccessary to be in the EU to enjoy free trade ?
    Norway is bathing in oil and has a population of 5 million. Switzerland only joined the UN in like 2002, obviously it's reluctant to joing (EU membership is a "strategic goal" for the Swiss Federal Council). Both have to apply something like 80% of EU law anyway, and don't get any say at all in the making of it. Also both countries pay into the EU budget, I think you'll find.
 
 
 
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