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I don't feel male or female. watch

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    Hi, ok, I was thinking about stuff and wondering if anyone else felt the same.

    I don't feel female or male, just feel like me. I'm biologically female but often wear men's clothes simply because I like how they look. I have spiky hair because I like how it looks and how easy it is to maintain. I feel uncomfortable when people refer to me as "she" or "her" but I don't feel comfortable being called "sir", as has happened a few times, either. I don't think I'm a transexual as I don't actually want to be a guy I just don't feel particularly female. Is that transexual? I'm not a lesbian, I'm bisexual and will go for men or women I like the look of, not necessarily feminine men or butch girls but people from across all the spectrum.

    Basically I'm feeling pretty confused and have been feeling confused for quite a few years. I'd like to just be me, wear what I like and have people accept that but I usually get the "must be a lesbian" comments. Is this anything anyone can help with or am I stuck with this confusion over myself for the rest of my life?


    If you're going to be abusive or rude, please don't bother, I got enough of that in my life.
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    Erm? lol
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    Hey aren't you on the TV show Skins or something?
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    Nvm.
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    That's perfectly normal. I would imagine you'll get transphobic abuse on this thread, but that is perfectly normal.

    You don't have to identify as 'male' or 'female', and you don't have to say 'well, I have a female body but I feel male' or 'I have a male body but I feel female' either. There is far more to gender than the binary male/female split. You get people who are gender-neutral; who feel that they don't actually identify with a gender label, and that gender doesn't impact their self-image. You get people who are bigendered, so some days they feel 'female' and some days they feel 'male'. You get people who are third-gender, so they feel that they do have a gender, but it's not male or female. You get people who are genderqueer, which is basically a catch-all term for not fitting into the binary view of things.

    Basically, look into communities of people who are genderqueer - the internet is actually a great place to do this. And don't be afraid to explore your gender identity. Who you're attracted to has nothing to do with your gender; a very masculine person who identifies as female, for example, doesn't have to be a lesbian.
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    Men turning to women is like lolwat enough, but this is like...

    Although, yeah, you're right, having a penis is awesome.
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    Strap on?
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    (Original post by kerily)
    That's perfectly normal. I would imagine you'll get transphobic abuse on this thread, but that is perfectly normal.

    You don't have to identify as 'male' or 'female', and you don't have to say 'well, I have a female body but I feel male' or 'I have a male body but I feel female' either. There is far more to gender than the binary male/female split. You get people who are gender-neutral; who feel that they don't actually identify with a gender label, and that gender doesn't impact their self-image. You get people who are bigendered, so some days they feel 'female' and some days they feel 'male'. You get people who are third-gender, so they feel that they do have a gender, but it's not male or female. You get people who are genderqueer, which is basically a catch-all term for not fitting into the binary view of things.

    Basically, look into communities of people who are genderqueer - the internet is actually a great place to do this. And don't be afraid to explore your gender identity. Who you're attracted to has nothing to do with your gender; a very masculine person who identifies as female, for example, doesn't have to be a lesbian.
    Thank you for the first helpful reply.

    I haven't heard the term genderqueer before, but I'll look it up on the internet, thanks. I think the neutral one you mentioned seems most to fit me, it's not that I dislike being female and wish to be male (which is why I believe being transexual would be like) but it's just I don't feel like either and don't see why I have to pick a box and fit myself into it. I've tried to do that most of my life and it feels wrong and makes me feel miserable.

    I do know sexual orientation is nothing to do with gender, I only mentioned I wasn't a lesbian as I anticipated everyone calling me one for having short hair and wearing clothes I like the look of rather than ones that match my biological gender.
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    Hey, ignore the stupid people in this thread. I'm not geared up on this sort of issues but I know it's normal, I wouldn't really worry what others say. You only live once!
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Thank you for the first helpful reply.
    Glad to be of use I'm afraid TSR maybe wasn't the best place to raise this, as you're going to get a lot of people making lesbian jokes/sexist jokes/transphobic remarks etc. But hopefully some other people will add sensible things too.

    I haven't heard the term genderqueer before, but I'll look it up on the internet, thanks. I think the neutral one you mentioned seems most to fit me, it's not that I dislike being female and wish to be male (which is why I believe being transexual would be like) but it's just I don't feel like either and don't see why I have to pick a box and fit myself into it. I've tried to do that most of my life and it feels wrong and makes me feel miserable.
    Transgender people feel more that they are men, despite having a female body, and thus want to have the right body to match - it's not really about changing who you are, more about becoming what you already are. But to be honest, you don't sound like you want to change your body, more that you want society to accept you for who you are. There are plenty of people out there who don't feel 'male' or 'female' - gender-neutral pronouns (ze, hir) have even been invented for them Some people feel that they want to alter their bodies slightly to present androgynously - for example, some people who are XX may bind their chests in order to be taken seriously as androgynes, because they don't want to be obviously of one gender. But it's definitely worth looking into being genderqueer and gender-neutral (also sometimes called 'neutrois').

    I do know sexual orientation is nothing to do with gender, I only mentioned I wasn't a lesbian as I anticipated everyone calling me one for having short hair and wearing clothes I like the look of rather than ones that match my biological gender.
    And I included the last bit mostly for the benefit of TSR as a whole, don't worry
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    Erm, girls are allowed to not want to wear feminine clothing...
    I don't think your fashion sense or hairstyle particularly matters in the context of gender!
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    Greedy bugger
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    (Original post by kerily)
    Glad to be of use I'm afraid TSR maybe wasn't the best place to raise this, as you're going to get a lot of people making lesbian jokes/sexist jokes/transphobic remarks etc. But hopefully some other people will add sensible things too.



    Transgender people feel more that they are men, despite having a female body, and thus want to have the right body to match - it's not really about changing who you are, more about becoming what you already are. But to be honest, you don't sound like you want to change your body, more that you want society to accept you for who you are. There are plenty of people out there who don't feel 'male' or 'female' - gender-neutral pronouns (ze, hir) have even been invented for them Some people feel that they want to alter their bodies slightly to present androgynously - for example, some people who are XX may bind their chests in order to be taken seriously as androgynes, because they don't want to be obviously of one gender. But it's definitely worth looking into being genderqueer and gender-neutral (also sometimes called 'neutrois').



    And I included the last bit mostly for the benefit of TSR as a whole, don't worry
    haha, wow I think you put that better than I did in my OP. That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I have quite big boobs and have bound my chest and taken pictures before and was really pleased with what it looked like but I'm not sure about going outside like that yet - guess I need to work up the courage still! What gets me is that if people are unsure of gender they don't use neutral words but will automatically call me sir which is a little weird.

    Thanks for your help, I'll look up the stuff you said, see if I can find a forum where people are more understanding than here. Do you feel the same btw or is it just something you're interested in? Sorry if that's too personal, don't feel obliged to answer.
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    You're not transgender if you're happy in your woman's body. Gender identity, though, is a gradual line rather than a rigid boundary, is it not? Why not just be happy with your own particular place on that line? Given that you are lesbian at least some of the time (sorry if that sounds insulting - it's not meant to be), are you actually wishing people would say 'Ah, she could either be a lesbian or on the slightly butch side of bi.'? I think expecting them to decipher your more-sophisiticated-than-average sexual identity from your appearance is a bit too much to ask, but ultimately the confusion is theirs, not yours. If you don't do this already, you could do worse than make it generally known that you're bi - that way you'll establish your own personal sexual identity both in your own eyes and in the eyes of those around you and possibly feel happier as a result.
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    (Original post by GdotL)
    Erm, girls are allowed to not want to wear feminine clothing...
    I don't think your fashion sense or hairstyle particularly matters in the context of gender!
    I'm not so sure they can actually. I've had things shouted at me in the streets many times, I've been called a butch dyke more times than I can remember and the general attitude hasn't been positive.

    I think you're right that girls can wear non-gender specific clothes more than guys can but if girls don't make it clear they're girls it's met with a lot of hostility ime.
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    You are female, but that's just an aspect of your biology. Be whoever you feel comfortable being, regardless of what kind of genitals you have. Because ultimately that's all it comes down to.

    Anyone worth knowing will respect you as an individual, even if you dress and behave in a way that's unusual for a woman.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    haha, wow I think you put that better than I did in my OP. That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I have quite big boobs and have bound my chest and taken pictures before and was really pleased with what it looked like but I'm not sure about going outside like that yet - guess I need to work up the courage still! What gets me is that if people are unsure of gender they don't use neutral words but will automatically call me sir which is a little weird.
    I have the same problem with binding - I'm a C luckily, not like an F as some people are, but it's still enough that binding has noticeable consequences (Do be careful with how you bind - some people use methods which can cause long-term damage. Using a dedicated binder is the best way of doing it, or if you can't afford that, wide sports bandages, with something under them so they don't cut into your skin. I tried with belts once when I was still very young and daft, and really, never again :eek:) People sadly don't jump to gender-neutrality. If you prefer neutral pronouns (I prefer 'they' personally) you can ask the people close to you to use those - but sadly ignorance from shop assistants etc is going to become a part of life.

    Thanks for your help, I'll look up the stuff you said, see if I can find a forum where people are more understanding than here. Do you feel the same btw or is it just something you're interested in? Sorry if that's too personal, don't feel obliged to answer.
    I wish I could recommend somewhere, but aside from tumblr I can't really - Google, I guess, is the best place to start I'm massively genderqueer myself. I'm biologically female, but my sexual orientation and my gender are very fluid; I've actually felt asexual for the past week, but usually the gender I feel like I am and the gender I feel I'm attracted to can vary on a daily basis. But even aside from my personal interest, I do think queer theory is fascinating.
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    I don't know a great deal about this sort of stuff, but ignore the idiots in this thread. It sounds like gender dysphoria, but it sounds like you don't identify with any gender rather than the opposite one. Maybe you can talk to somebody who specializes in gender issues through your GP perhaps.

    I don't really know what else to say, but good luck, and ignore the people making insensitive comments .
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    (Original post by Zax)
    You're not transgender if you're happy in your woman's body. Gender identity, though, is a gradual line rather than a rigid boundary, is it not? Why not just be happy with your own particular place on that line? Given that you are lesbian at least some of the time (sorry if that sounds insulting - it's not meant to be), are you actually wishing people would say 'Ah, she could either be a lesbian or on the slightly butch side of bi.'? I think expecting them to decipher your more-sophisiticated-than-average sexual identity from your appearance is a bit too much to ask, but ultimately the confusion is theirs, not yours. If you don't do this already, you could do worse than make it generally known that you're bi - that way you'll establish your own personal sexual identity both in your own eyes and in the eyes of those around you and possibly feel happier as a result.
    Thanks for the reply.

    I think I get where you're coming from but I think perhaps you misunderstood my post (my fault for going on a tangent about sexual identity). I don't really think my sexual identity is relevant to anything, I don't make an issue of telling people I'm bi, although most my friends guessed, because I see sexual orientation as unimportant to how people should treat me as a person. I guess I see sexual orientation like I see gender, I go for what I like whether that be men/women or short hair/baggy jeans without really considering what I'm "meant" to do. I do what's comfortable to me.

    I'm sorry I think I haven't explained too well. Do you think the problem is just that people don't realise I'm bi and if more people did they'd be more willing to accept how I present myself otherwise? With this acceptance then leading to me feeling less lost?
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    (Original post by kerily)
    I have the same problem with binding - I'm a C luckily, not like an F as some people are, but it's still enough that binding has noticeable consequences (Do be careful with how you bind - some people use methods which can cause long-term damage. Using a dedicated binder is the best way of doing it, or if you can't afford that, wide sports bandages, with something under them so they don't cut into your skin. I tried with belts once when I was still very young and daft, and really, never again :eek:) People sadly don't jump to gender-neutrality. If you prefer neutral pronouns (I prefer 'they' personally) you can ask the people close to you to use those - but sadly ignorance from shop assistants etc is going to become a part of life.



    I wish I could recommend somewhere, but aside from tumblr I can't really - Google, I guess, is the best place to start I'm massively genderqueer myself. I'm biologically female, but my sexual orientation and my gender are very fluid; I've actually felt asexual for the past week, but usually the gender I feel like I am and the gender I feel I'm attracted to can vary on a daily basis. But even aside from my personal interest, I do think queer theory is fascinating.
    Ok thanks for the tip. A belt sounds pretty painful! When I've done it, I've worn 2 sports bras, one the right way round and one backwards and that seems to work well. I did read about a dedicated binder which I might invest in in time. It's just when I did it and looked in the mirror I saw me, it felt amazing, I didn't see breasts sticking out I just saw a person, I'm sorry that sounds weird but I can't really describe how good a feeling it was. I prefer the pronoun "they" as well and might ask a few close friends to use that to see how it feels, although I'm scared they'll reject me entirely. I do still make an effort to appear female when I go out (for instance by not binding outside and trying to wear stereotypical girl clothes sometimes) but I'm worried their reaction will be total rejection if I gave in to how I feel inside.

    That's quite interesting that you change what you feel like on a daily basis, I've never thought that possible before now. With me I constantly feel neutral, I don't remember ever feeling female even when I was very young I just did what I like doing. But thanks for your posts, you've made me feel a lot better about things, I feel less like a freak now I know at least one person in the world has some understanding.

    Btw, do you mind if I pm you at some point perhaps just as someone to talk to? I understand if it's a no but you seem pretty cool and I really appreciate your advice.
 
 
 
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