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Becoming an assosciate in a british law firm without being british watch

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    How does that work?
    Let's say you tick all the boxes, Oxbridge grad,1st and so on.
    Do they recruit you?
    Is there a difference in pay?
    Are there any special benefits?(housing allowance etc)

    Just out of curiosity really.

    Similarly, what about another field such as medicine or investment banking for example.

    I understand that you'll be studying with a student visa and you most probably will have to go back to your country of origin and then apply to work but anyone knows any info about this?
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    (Original post by Theconomist)
    How does that work?
    Let's say you tick all the boxes, Oxbridge grad,1st and so on.
    Do they recruit you?
    Is there a difference in pay?
    Are there any special benefits?(housing allowance etc)

    Just out of curiosity really.

    Similarly, what about another field such as medicine or investment banking for example.

    I understand that you'll be studying with a student visa and you most probably will have to go back to your country of origin and then apply to work but anyone knows any info about this?
    Do you mean "without being British" or "without being from EU" because, obviously, there is a difference.

    EU citizens apply in the same way as those from UK and get the same sort of treatment in the application process. The same thing goes for international applicants; however, there will be the added caveat of getting a visa and perhaps offering something that a home applicant cannot offer. Some firms recruit from certain countries directly though (Links have a recruitment scheme in India, for example) and I've met trainees at the firm who have been recruited directly from there. I very much doubt that there would be any difference in pay and I also don't think firms would go as far as to give you housing allowance just because you're from abroad.
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    (Original post by eve_22)
    Do you mean "without being British" or "without being from EU" because, obviously, there is a difference.

    EU citizens apply in the same way as those from UK and get the same sort of treatment in the application process. The same thing goes for international applicants; however, there will be the added caveat of getting a visa and perhaps offering something that a home applicant cannot offer. Some firms recruit from certain countries directly though (Links have a recruitment scheme in India, for example) and I've met trainees at the firm who have been recruited directly from there. I very much doubt that there would be any difference in pay and I also don't think firms would go as far as to give you housing allowance just because you're from abroad.
    Can you rise up t become a partner if you are from non EU?
    All things being similar I doubt a non EU will have the same chances as a EU/UK national in rising the corporate ladder.
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    (Original post by Theconomist)
    Can you rise up t become a partner if you are from non EU?
    All things being similar I doubt a non EU will have the same chances as a EU/UK national in rising the corporate ladder.
    Why? If you're earning the firm money that's all that matters.
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    (Original post by Theconomist)
    Can you rise up t become a partner if you are from non EU?
    All things being similar I doubt a non EU will have the same chances as a EU/UK national in rising the corporate ladder.
    I don't see why you couldn't. Surely, if you're good, then you're good regardless of whether you're UK, EU or international.

    Or maybe that's just me being naive....
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    1. This is the most ridiculous thread i have ever seen.

    2. If you are non-EU there is all the work permit nonsense about there being no EU national candidate who can do the job instead, but it will usually boil down to the employer saying X from a non-EU member state is the best candidate for the job. This goes for any job in any career path that doesn't have major national security interests involved e.g. high levels in MoD etc

    3. Why wouldn't it be anything but this? When you get down it it's as Jerry Maguire said "Show me the Money!!!" If you're bringing clients in and aren't a complete turd (or if you ARE a complete turd depending on what the partners in your firm are like ) There's no reason why you won't make partner.
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    And another thing...

    With Business becoming increasingly global and companies altering their strategies for international markets to account for local preferences, parochialism and tastes... Law by necessity must also embrace diversity so they can capitalise on growth in areas like HK, the Middle East but more particularly Brazil, China and India. The last three countries notriously favour people that are familiar with their "way of doing things" (the same can be said for a lot of US businesses imho)

    Hence the push for Mandarin speakers and for Indian legal recruits (MC firms have dedicated Indian recruitment drives), it's not just because the business/legal sectors in China and India are heavily regulated, going local has clear practical messages and sends a good message to prospective clients: "you'll be dealing with people like you"

    So for these reasons, firms are making deliberate attempts not just to have informal or formal alliances with emerging market firms, but also to employ lawyers from these countries themselves, mostly at associate level but also at partner level.


    Bit of winding post but there you go
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    (Original post by GoBigOrGoHome)
    1. This is the most ridiculous thread i have ever seen.

    2. If you are non-EU there is all the work permit nonsense about there being no EU national candidate who can do the job instead, but it will usually boil down to the employer saying X from a non-EU member state is the best candidate for the job. This goes for any job in any career path that doesn't have major national security interests involved e.g. high levels in MoD etc

    3. Why wouldn't it be anything but this? When you get down it it's as Jerry Maguire said "Show me the Money!!!" If you're bringing clients in and aren't a complete turd (or if you ARE a complete turd depending on what the partners in your firm are like ) There's no reason why you won't make partner.
    Just curious, but referring to point number 2, does the govt. actually ask whether there are no EU candidates to do the job instead before granting work permits?
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    (Original post by gunmetalpanda)
    Just curious, but referring to point number 2, does the govt. actually ask whether there are no EU candidates to do the job instead before granting work permits?
    In some form they do, it's part of the process when an employer applies for a work permit for a non-EU employee.

    EDIT: no EU candidate better qualified or better suited to the role i think is how they phrase it
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    (Original post by Theconomist)
    Can you rise up t become a partner if you are from non EU?
    All things being similar I doubt a non EU will have the same chances as a EU/UK national in rising the corporate ladder.
    You are unlikely to have a problem rising up the ladder as law firms do not discriminate on grounds of nationality.

    If there is going to a problem, it will be in getting on the ladder in the first place. The post-study work visa is being withdrawn. That used to be the first stage in a staircase of visas which led to indefinite leave to remain.

    From next year it is being replaced by a new visa for ex-students which requires the person concerned to be paid a minimum of £20,000 or the market rate for the job, which is higher. That isn't going to be a problem for trainee solicitors in City firms.

    However, there are some uncertainties. Someone who has posted on another thread thinks that this visa is not time limited. The government announcement is ambiguous but I think this new visa is limited to 2 years like the old post-study work visa.

    That means that non-EU nationals will need another class of visa to span a further three years before they become eligible for indefinite leave to remain. The obvious other visa is the Tier 2 (General) visa which is the one other posters in this thread have commented upon where it has to be shown that no EU national could fill the post. Given that you will just have completed your training contract with a leading firm, that should not be too much of a problem.

    However, there is another ambiguity. The government is trying to draw a hard line between "immigration" from non-EU countries and temporary residence. Students and post-students are in the latter category and Tier 2 (General) people are in the former class. Immigrants are supposed to be subject to an annual cap and within that cap to very tight individual quotas for sponsoring firms. However, as presently drafted that quota doesn't apply to in-country applications e.g. from people converting from the new post-student visa to a Tier 2 (General) visa. That doesn't seem to be right in principle. It drives a coach and horses through government policy. Effectively there is a back door by which someone becomes an "immigrant" without being counted towards the "immigration" cap. My guess is that by the time these changes are brought in, this will be refined and people switching from the post-student to the Tier 2 (General) visa will be subject to the cap.

    The reason for this lengthy explanation is this. If the cap does apply to your Tier 2 (General) visa, law firms will have to decide whether to "spend" or "waste" one of their few and precious Tier 2 (General) visa quota on you. No-one is going to offer you a training contract (covered by the new post-student visa) unless they are prepared to seek a Tier 2 (General) visa for you once you qualify.

    Depending on how the ambiguities referred to are resolved and how difficult firms find the quota in practice, you may find a reluctance in firms to offer traineeships to non-EU nationals who don't already have indefinite leave to remain.
 
 
 
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