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Suit cut? Advice from girls and guys needed. watch

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    I've just bought some of the finest Italian fabric for a suit. It's a dark grey. I want a three-piece but I'd rather have a waist-coat in a different colour all-together. Something bright, this is very common with black suits, but can it be pulled off with a grey? Which colours would you recommend? Also I was thinking of getting a waistcoat with peaked lapels AND hand-stitched peaked lapels (the look, the suit will be hand-stitched regardless) on the jacket as well. Am I going a bit overboard? I don't want what everyone else has. (I'm about 6 feet with very broad shoulders and my waist is about 65% the size of my shouders). Also I want a really fitted suit, but I don't know if it'll suit my body-type? I've never really gone out of my comfort zone (single-breasted, three buttons, ordinary lapels). Advice would be greatly appreciated by guys or girls!

    Edit: The suit is primarily for the annual school ball.
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    :drool:...which fabric is it exactly? And how dark is the grey - is it charcoal? If you have enough of that cloth for a three piece, I'd recommend having a three piece made up in it now, as you can always find a different cloth for a contrasting ("odd" is the traditional term) waistcoat later. For an evening event, I think a dark suit with a matching waistcoat tends to look better, whereas odd waistcoats are more of a daywear or even "country" thing (it works very well with tweed).

    I think the best configuration for a dressy evening suit (although as it's a ball, have you not considered a dinner jacket?) would be the following:

    Coat:

    Single breasted, one-button (perhaps a link-front closure), bellied peaked lapels
    Double jetted ("besom") hip pockets - as seen on most dinner jackets, and no ticket pocket
    Either no vents or double vents - Ventless is more formal, but might be less comfortable. Do not get a centre vent

    Waistcoat
    Double breasted (6x3 or 8x4, in a "keystone" stance that gets narrower as you go down) and with holes for a watch chain if you want to wear a pocket watch.
    Peaked lapels
    Flat across the bottom (this is my personal preference, although DB waistcoats with points are not unheard of)

    Trousers
    High-waisted, fishtail back (cut for braces)
    No turn-ups (cuffs) at the bottom

    As for the silhouette that will work best for your build, have a read of this first (by the author of "The Suit: A Machiavellian Approach to Men's Style") and see what you think.

    EDIT: Most tailors will have certain silhouettes that they're best at doing. Decide what you want first, and then find a tailor who specializes in it.
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    (Original post by rmanoj)
    :drool:...which fabric is it exactly? And how dark is the grey - is it charcoal? If you have enough of that cloth for a three piece, I'd recommend having a three piece made up in it now, as you can always find a different cloth for a contrasting ("odd" is the traditional term) waistcoat later. For an evening event, I think a dark suit with a matching waistcoat tends to look better, whereas odd waistcoats are more of a daywear or even "country" thing (it works very well with tweed).

    I think the best configuration for a dressy evening suit (although as it's a ball, have you not considered a dinner jacket?) would be the following:

    Coat:

    Single breasted, one-button (perhaps a link-front closure), bellied peaked lapels
    Double jetted ("besom") hip pockets - as seen on most dinner jackets, and no ticket pocket
    Either no vents or double vents - Ventless is more formal, but might be less comfortable. Do not get a centre vent

    Waistcoat
    Double breasted (6x3 or 8x4, in a "keystone" stance that gets narrower as you go down) and with holes for a watch chain if you want to wear a pocket watch.
    Peaked lapels
    Flat across the bottom (this is my personal preference, although DB waistcoats with points are not unheard of)

    Trousers
    High-waisted, fishtail back (cut for braces)
    No turn-ups (cuffs) at the bottom

    As for the silhouette that will work best for your build, have a read of this first (by the author of "The Suit: A Machiavellian Approach to Men's Style") and see what you think.

    EDIT: Most tailors will have certain silhouettes that they're best at doing. Decide what you want first, and then find a tailor who specializes in it.
    Brilliant advice. It's cotton, 160 grade I think? Wool doesn't work well where I live, considering it's uncomfortably warm this time of year. It is a charcoal grey. I don't think I'd have enough fabric for a three-piece, unfortunately. Also it is more of an early evening event, with the first half of it being in daylight. Also which tie would you suggest? And shirt colour/style?


    Edit: A bit off-topic, are you a suit lover as well? My friends tend to call me a douchebag and set out o wreck my clohes because of how many suits I have, just wondering if yours are as humorously hostile towards you because of it? :P
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    (Original post by OmarDurrani)
    Brilliant advice. It's cotton, 160 grade I think? Wool doesn't work well where I live, considering it's uncomfortably warm this time of year. It is a charcoal grey. I don't think I'd have enough fabric for a three-piece, unfortunately. Also it is more of an early evening event, with the first half of it being in daylight. Also which tie would you suggest? And shirt colour/style?


    Edit: A bit off-topic, are you a suit lover as well? My friends tend to call me a douchebag and set out o wreck my clohes because of how many suits I have, just wondering if yours are as humorously hostile towards you because of it? :P
    Thanks. In that case, I'd just omit the waistcoat and have the coat and trousers made up as I outlined. if you really want a waistcoat, then I'd recommend a buff linen DB like this one - but this would work better if the suit is quite a dark charcoal.
    For the shirt, I'd suggest something like this. - good quality plain white cotton, fairly spread collar, double (French) cuffs and Mother of Pearl buttons.
    The sort of tie that works best with this kind of dressy suit is what is traditionally known as a wedding tie. Examples include this, and this. Failing that, a solid silver or perhaps navy tie would work perfectly well, but make sure they're in a slightly textured weave rather than satin. Of course, wearing a wedding tie and a buff linen waistcoat together risks looking like you've just come from a wedding (that's why I recommended a matching charcoal waistcoat)!

    My friends don't really bother me about that sort of thing, although I suppose they do find it amusing.

    EDIT: Cotton isn't normally used for this kind of formal suiting - worsted barathea wool would be the most traditional, dressiest option, but don't worry about it and just work with what you have.
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    (Original post by rmanoj)
    Thanks. In that case, I'd just omit the waistcoat and have the coat and trousers made up as I outlined. if you really want a waistcoat, then I'd recommend a buff linen DB like this one - but this would work better if the suit is quite a dark charcoal.
    For the shirt, I'd suggest something like this. - good quality plain white cotton, fairly spread collar, double (French) cuffs and Mother of Pearl buttons.
    The sort of tie that works best with this kind of dressy suit is what is traditionally known as a wedding tie. Examples include this, and this. Failing that, a solid silver or perhaps navy tie would work perfectly well, but make sure they're in a slightly textured weave rather than satin. Of course, wearing a wedding tie and a buff linen waistcoat together risks looking like you've just come from a wedding (that's why I recommended a matching charcoal waistcoat)!

    My friends don't really bother me about that sort of thing, although I suppose they do find it amusing.

    EDIT: Cotton isn't normally used for this kind of formal suiting - worsted barathea wool would be the most traditional, dressiest option, but don't worry about it and just work with what you have.
    I could buy completely new fabric as well, that's not really a problem. Make a more casual suit out of this, but I'd hate to see such expensive fabric go into an everyday thing...It may be a cotton/wool mix actually, I'm not too sure. It's about as heavy as the fabric of my tweed kilt-jacket, perhaps just a bit lighter.
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    (Original post by OmarDurrani)
    I could buy completely new fabric as well, that's not really a problem. Make a more casual suit out of this, but I'd hate to see such expensive fabric go into an everyday thing...It may be a cotton/wool mix actually, I'm not too sure. It's about as heavy as the fabric of my tweed kilt-jacket, perhaps just a bit lighter.
    Well, it's entirely up to you and how much you want to spend. You could get some tropical weight wool (make sure that it doesn't have a high "Super" number - I'd always steer clear of anything above Super 130s), which would be more "appropriate" than cotton (if you're going to be in an air-conditioned environment, surely it shouldn't be that much of a problem anyway). If you do, make sure to get enough for a three piece with a double breasted waistcoat (perhaps an extra pair of trousers as well, although that's probably unnecessary if you'll only wear this suit for special occasions). Consider getting it in Midnight Blue barathea, which is normally used for dinner jackets but ideal for an "occasion" suit worn in the evening (be warned it won't look great during the day, so navy and charcoal are more versatile in this regard). If you want something that will wear cooler than barathea, whilst still being wool and fairly dressy, have a look at J&J Minnis Fresco, in navy blue, midnight, dark grey or Oxford.

    I guess you'd have to use the cloth you've already got for a normal summer suit, or perhaps just sell it. If, on the other hand, you do decide to stick with the cotton, then as I said, have it made up as a two piece and wear it with a wedding tie.
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    (Original post by rmanoj)
    Well, it's entirely up to you and how much you want to spend. You could get some tropical weight wool (make sure that it doesn't have a high "Super" number - I'd always steer clear of anything above Super 130s), which would be more "appropriate" than cotton (if you're going to be in an air-conditioned environment, surely it shouldn't be that much of a problem anyway). If you do, make sure to get enough for a three piece with a double breasted waistcoat (perhaps an extra pair of trousers as well, although that's probably unnecessary if you'll only wear this suit for special occasions). Consider getting it in Midnight Blue barathea, which is normally used for dinner jackets but ideal for an "occasion" suit worn in the evening (be warned it won't look great during the day, so navy and charcoal are more versatile in this regard). If you want something that will wear cooler than barathea, whilst still being wool and fairly dressy, have a look at J&J Minnis Fresco, in navy blue, midnight, dark grey or Oxford.

    I guess you'd have to use the cloth you've already got for a normal summer suit, or perhaps just sell it. If, on the other hand, you do decide to stick with the cotton, then as I said, have it made up as a two piece and wear it with a wedding tie.
    I was thinking of perhaps buying different fabric. A white dinner jacket/waistcoat with black trousers? White dinner jackets are typically worn in warmer climates, no?
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    (Original post by OmarDurrani)
    I was thinking of perhaps buying different fabric. A white dinner jacket/waistcoat with black trousers? White dinner jackets are typically worn in warmer climates, no?
    I thought you weren't going to wear a dinner jacket (because the event starts in daylight hours, right)? If you do get one, make sure it's not pure white - ivory is far more elegant. The waistcoat should be in the same black fabric as the trousers, but a cummerbund would make more sense given the climate. In any case, my favourite configuration for the white/ ivory DJ does away with the need for waistcoats or cummerbunds altogether:



    Double breasted (Bogart's wearing a 4x1 I think, although I'd actually prefer a 2x1), shawl collar.

    n.b. It's not considered correct to wear white DJs in non-tropical climates even in the summer, so a black one in lightweight wool would be more versatile if you anticipate needing to wear it abroad at any point.
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    (Original post by rmanoj)
    I thought you weren't going to wear a dinner jacket (because the event starts in daylight hours, right)? If you do get one, make sure it's not pure white - ivory is far more elegant. The waistcoat should be in the same black fabric as the trousers, but a cummerbund would make more sense given the climate. In any case, my favourite configuration for the white/ ivory DJ does away with the need for waistcoats or cummerbunds altogether:



    Double breasted (Bogart's wearing a 4x1 I think, although I'd actually prefer a 2x1), shawl collar.

    n.b. It's not considered correct to wear white DJs in non-tropical climates even in the summer, so a black one in lightweight wool would be more versatile if you anticipate needing to wear it abroad at any point.
    Yes, it starts during daylight hours. Though the after party is very late at night, the appeal I get from a waistcoat is being able to take the jacket off without looking completely casual.
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    (Original post by OmarDurrani)
    Yes, it starts during daylight hours. Though the after party is very late at night, the appeal I get from a waistcoat is being able to take the jacket off without looking completely casual.
    Well, evening dress-wearing time traditionally starts at 6pm. You could perhaps stretch it to 5pm without it being massively wrong, but if it's any earlier than that, I'd just wear a suit. If you want a DJ with a waistcoat, by all means go for it - I suggest an ivory shawl collar 1-button coat, black trousers and matching black waistcoat, all in lightweight wool. Make sure that the waistcoat is a low-cut, U-shaped one like this. Also note that a lot of evening waistcoats are backless and look ridiculous if you take the coat off, so ensure sure you tell your tailor specifically to make it with a full back.

    I don't believe in taking my coat off (especially when wearing a bow tie and waistcoat as well - that just screams "waiter"), even at after parties. :evil:
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    (Original post by rmanoj)
    Well, evening dress-wearing time traditionally starts at 6pm. You could perhaps stretch it to 5pm without it being massively wrong, but if it's any earlier than that, I'd just wear a suit. If you want a DJ with a waistcoat, by all means go for it - I suggest an ivory shawl collar 1-button coat, black trousers and matching black waistcoat, all in lightweight wool. Make sure that the waistcoat is a low-cut, U-shaped one like this. Also note that a lot of evening waistcoats are backless and look ridiculous if you take the coat off, so ensure sure you tell your tailor specifically to make it with a full back.

    I don't believe in taking my coat off (especially when wearing a bow tie and waistcoat as well - that just screams "waiter"), even at after parties. :evil:
    Yes, I'm aware of them being backless, and I agree with it screaming "waiter." What about your previous suggestion, except substitute the fabrics with ivory for the jacket and black for the rest? Also I'm not too sure about the cut still, so I'm attaching a picture just in case. Do you think the cut you suggested earlier is fine (Forgive the fact that it was taken in the bathroom, I just put a shirt on for a better idea of what I look like in a shirt, I was just in an under-shirt and these pyjama-shorts before.)

    http://img405.imageshack.us/i/img00172201103270154.jpg/

    Edit: The sun doesn't set until about 6:45 here, the event starts at 5:45 AFAIK.
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    (Original post by OmarDurrani)
    I've just bought some of the finest Italian fabric for a suit. It's a dark grey. I want a three-piece but I'd rather have a waist-coat in a different colour all-together. Something bright, this is very common with black suits, but can it be pulled off with a grey? Which colours would you recommend? Also I was thinking of getting a waistcoat with peaked lapels AND hand-stitched peaked lapels (the look, the suit will be hand-stitched regardless) on the jacket as well. Am I going a bit overboard? I don't want what everyone else has. (I'm about 6 feet with very broad shoulders and my waist is about 65% the size of my shouders). Also I want a really fitted suit, but I don't know if it'll suit my body-type? I've never really gone out of my comfort zone (single-breasted, three buttons, ordinary lapels). Advice would be greatly appreciated by guys or girls!

    Edit: The suit is primarily for the annual school ball.
    I want a new suit :emo:

    As for a "fitted" suit, it's meant to suit everybody. I have a similar body shape and I'd kill for a fitted suit. Fitted doesn't necessarily mean skinny so I don't see why not. I suppose the main problem is that if your body size fluctuates then that's quite a lot of money down the drain for a few uses. I'd recommend buying a cheapish suit (less than 200 pounds) or even renting for school formals and buying one later on when/if you have to wear a suit on a regular basis.

    If you're going to get a waistcoat, personally, I'd rather screw matching it with a suit altogether and match it with your shirt if you're going a different colour as it's quite hard matching suit to waistcoat with different colours in my opinion.
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    (Original post by Irrelevance)
    I want a new suit :emo:

    As for a "fitted" suit, it's meant to suit everybody. I have a similar body shape and I'd kill for a fitted suit. Fitted doesn't necessarily mean skinny so I don't see why not. I suppose the main problem is that if your body size fluctuates then that's quite a lot of money down the drain for a few uses. I'd recommend buying a cheapish suit (less than 200 pounds) or even renting for school formals and buying one later on when/if you have to wear a suit on a regular basis.
    If you're going to get a waistcoat, personally, I'd rather screw matching it with a suit altogether and match it with your shirt if you're going a different colour as it's quite hard matching suit to waistcoat with different colours in my opinion.
    I've pulled off coloured with a black suit before, I'm attaching a picture, but once again, the picture was HEAVILY edited to create a "painted" effect.
    http://img202.imageshack.us/i/msndisplay.jpg/

    I do wear suits regularly, I just wouldn't wear this particular one I'm having made regularly. The number of formal events I have to attend is ridiculous, hence my collection of 24 suits. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by OmarDurrani)
    Yes, I'm aware of them being backless, and I agree with it screaming "waiter." What about your previous suggestion, except substitute the fabrics with ivory for the jacket and black for the rest? Also I'm not too sure about the cut still, so I'm attaching a picture just in case. Do you think the cut you suggested earlier is fine (Forgive the fact that it was taken in the bathroom, I just put a shirt on for a better idea of what I look like in a shirt, I was just in an under-shirt and these pyjama-shorts before.)

    http://img405.imageshack.us/i/img00172201103270154.jpg/

    Edit: The sun doesn't set until about 6:45 here, the event starts at 5:45 AFAIK.
    5.45 is fine for evening dress - the Sun not actually having set doesn't really matter, so I think you should just go for the DJ. I didn't actually suggest a specific cut earlier - that link was to a post describing different suit silhouettes. With your build, you could wear most cuts quite well, apart from perhaps the old American sack coat. I think the "English military" silhouette might work particularly well for you - here's the description from the post (he's discussing normal suits rather than dinner jackets, so ignore the bits about buttons, and he's put different tailoring houses' names in parentheses):

    "English military (e.g., Kilgour, Dege, Logsdail) or "equestrian" (Hunstman): very enlongating overall; structured shoulder on the natural line. *Roped (Kilgour, Logsdail). *Lots of structure on the chest. *Clean chest. *Very lean; high gorge, high waist. *Wasp waist, flared skirt, one-button stance (Huntsman). *Narrowish lapels, true three button (i.e., two to button) stance (Kilgour)."

    However, if you're going to a local tailor rather than to one of the famous establishments in Britain or Leonard Logsdail in America, it's probably a better idea to ask for the "typical Savile Row" cut:

    "natural shoulder on the shoulder line, roped; chest with a little swell and a little drape; high gorge and waist; lapels slightly narrower than halfway across the jacket's chest; lapels gently curved from the waist button to the gorge; pinched waist; flared skirt;"

    Again, each tailor will have his own way of doing things, and asking him to imitate another style will probably not work out very well. However, a very generalised cut that would suit you would include a coat with shoulders on the natural line (you don't need any padding or extension), a wasp waist (nipped in), flared skirt and (unless you have big legs), fairly slim flat-front trousers with no break at the bottom (so that the trouser leg forms a clean vertical line and just touches the top of the shoe).
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    (Original post by rmanoj)
    5.45 is fine for evening dress - the Sun not actually having set doesn't really matter, so I think you should just go for the DJ. I didn't actually suggest a specific cut earlier - that link was to a post describing different suit silhouettes. With your build, you could wear most cuts quite well, apart from perhaps the old American sack coat. I think the "English military" silhouette might work particularly well for you - here's the description from the post (he's discussing normal suits rather than dinner jackets, so ignore the bits about buttons, and he's put different tailoring houses' names in parentheses):

    "English military (e.g., Kilgour, Dege, Logsdail) or "equestrian" (Hunstman): very enlongating overall; structured shoulder on the natural line. *Roped (Kilgour, Logsdail). *Lots of structure on the chest. *Clean chest. *Very lean; high gorge, high waist. *Wasp waist, flared skirt, one-button stance (Huntsman). *Narrowish lapels, true three button (i.e., two to button) stance (Kilgour)."

    However, if you're going to a local tailor rather than to one of the famous establishments in Britain or Leonard Logsdail in America, it's probably a better idea to ask for the "typical Savile Row" cut:

    "natural shoulder on the shoulder line, roped; chest with a little swell and a little drape; high gorge and waist; lapels slightly narrower than halfway across the jacket's chest; lapels gently curved from the waist button to the gorge; pinched waist; flared skirt;"

    Again, each tailor will have his own way of doing things, and asking him to imitate another style will probably not work out very well. However, a very generalised cut that would suit you would include a coat with shoulders on the natural line (you don't need any padding or extension), a wasp waist (nipped in), flared skirt and (unless you have big legs), fairly slim flat-front trousers with no break at the bottom (so that the trouser leg forms a clean vertical line and just touches the top of the shoe).
    I'm going to a famous local establishment (older than the country I live in, hehe) I've had suits stitched from there before, they've all turned out great. Also, which shoes would you suggest?
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    (Original post by OmarDurrani)
    I'm going to a famous local establishment (older than the country I live in, hehe) I've had suits stitched from there before, they've all turned out great. Also, which shoes would you suggest?
    The correct shoes to wear with a dinner jacket are either black patent leather plain-toe Oxfords (such as this one), or if you're man enough, pumps with a bow (either patent leather or calf is acceptable) : see here (they've got both patent and calf as options).
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    (Original post by rmanoj)
    The correct shoes to wear with a dinner jacket are either black patent leather plain-toe Oxfords (such as this one), or if you're man enough, pumps with a bow (either patent leather or calf is acceptable) : see here (they've got both patent and calf as options).
    From what I can make of this, you can use AS levels for arts, but not for sciences. I wonder why if you consider the fact that the entry grades for A levels are the same....
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    Single vent.......that is all.
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    (Original post by J_90)
    Single vent.......that is all.
    Seriously?
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    (Original post by OmarDurrani)
    From what I can make of this, you can use AS levels for arts, but not for sciences. I wonder why if you consider the fact that the entry grades for A levels are the same....
    Wrong thread?



    (Original post by J_90)
    Single vent.......that is all.
    No. The single vent was originally a practical feature of riding coats, but for some reason Americans love to have them on all their suit coats and sports jackets. Unless you're going to ride a horse in your suit, double vents will be more practical and comfortable, and having no vent at all will be more formal and elegant.
 
 
 
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