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People opposing the cuts are what's wrong with this country! watch

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    (Original post by jhubbert)
    Here's some figures for those that think that Labour aren't in the wrong

    -Before repayments to the IMF, £56 bn is paid just in interest
    -For every £4 spent, £1 is borrowed
    -Our national debt is £4 trillion

    If the treasury's plan of action works out properly, our national debt should be significantly reduced by 2016.
    How would the national debt be reduced at all by 2016 under current plans? we'd still have a deficit then...

    National debt is £900bn ex financial sector liabilities, £2.2tn with
    http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/uk...national-debt/

    Debt interest for 10/11 is £43bn
    http://cdn.budgetresponsibility.inde...k_23032011.pdf

    Anything else you fancy making up?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    How would the national debt be reduced at all by 2016 under current plans? we'd still have a deficit then...

    National debt is £900bn ex financial sector liabilities, £2.2tn with
    http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/uk...national-debt/

    Debt interest for 10/11 is £43bn
    http://cdn.budgetresponsibility.inde...k_23032011.pdf

    Anything else you fancy making up?
    Agreed but the cuts that Labour were going to introduce would have hardly made any impact at all. Plus, given their previous reign, had they stayed in power its likely that they still would have overspent and not dealt with the deficit accordingly.

    Yes times are going to be tougher for lots of people, we all acknowledge that, but that is entirely down to Labour and the massive errors they made whilst in power.

    We'll obviously still have a deficit in 2016, but at least the current government are actually dealing with the issue and looking at problems such as tax avoidance, simplifying the tax system, cutting administrative costs, possibly getting rid of a lot of the health and safety nonsense and so on, just as other countries that are experiencing growth have done.

    Im not saying the coalition are perfect because they are not, none of them.

    You look at countries like Germany where you can work on a construction site with basic PPE yet still have lower accident rates and it clearly highlights the flaws of the way we currently do things here. Too many risk assessments need to be carried out before things can get done. The only time I agree that health and safety needs to be issued and all things need to be considered is when Asbestos or very dangerous chemicals are present, due to the extreme health hazards. However, under the current regulations, you can't even use a ladder to change a lightbulb and have to call in a qualified electrician to do it for you which in turn leads to massive amounts of money being wasted, especially within the public sector.
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    (Original post by AreYouDizzeeBlud_x)
    thats false.

    my cousin got kicked out at 18, and within a few days he was given a place. I also know of ex school mates who've been through the same thing. They've spent a few nights sleeping on someone's settee (not the end of the world) and then had their own place very soon. Not exactly 5 star accommodation but its still a roof over their head and they still get JSA to spend on food and so on. A number of them also have enough money to buy weed as well.
    If you think you know better than a homeless charity, then yes, you are naive. If it's so easy to get a place, why are there so many homeless people? Do you have any idea how hard it is for people sleeping on the streets to get accommodation even in a homeless shelter? I'm sure it differs from place to place, but certainly in Oxford (and probably most densely population areas) it's extremely difficult.
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    Even if you agree with the need to make cuts, it doesn't mean you have to agree with what cuts are being made.

    The coalition is passing on too much of the dirty work to others (local government, quangos) instead of first looking to areas under its direct control where cuts could be made. We could easily have 500 MPs not the 600 proposed, the House of Lords could work with 100 members as a scrutinising/revising chamber, and let's abolish the London Assembly which is an expensive talking shop.

    Most government departments could be a lot smaller with 95% of the staff based in lower cost parts of the country. Trident need not be replaced.

    Instead we have local services decimated that could be cut by far less, the lunacy of an aircraft carrier with no aircraft, and fuel duty frozen whilst rail fares go up by well above inflation. To name but a few. Other than welfare reform there seems no general structural reform of government.
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    (Original post by dreiviergrenadier)
    If you think you know better than a homeless charity, then yes, you are naive. If it's so easy to get a place, why are there so many homeless people? Do you have any idea how hard it is for people sleeping on the streets to get accommodation even in a homeless shelter? I'm sure it differs from place to place, but certainly in Oxford (and probably most densely population areas) it's extremely difficult.
    fair enough, in Oxford it may be difficult but its not where I am from in Cardiff.

    there is not that many homeless people in Cardiff.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Even if you agree with the need to make cuts, it doesn't mean you have to agree with what cuts are being made.

    The coalition is passing on too much of the dirty work to others (local government, quangos) instead of first looking to areas under its direct control where cuts could be made. We could easily have 500 MPs not the 600 proposed, the House of Lords could work with 100 members as a scrutinising/revising chamber, and let's abolish the London Assembly which is an expensive talking shop.

    Most government departments could be a lot smaller with 95% of the staff based in lower cost parts of the country. Trident need not be replaced.

    Instead we have local services decimated that could be cut by far less, the lunacy of an aircraft carrier with no aircraft, and fuel duty frozen whilst rail fares go up by well above inflation. To name but a few. Other than welfare reform there seems no general structural reform of government.
    I agree but how are we going to make them change their minds? nothing we do is going to make them go against their proposed ideas so in reality we should just accept it and hope that there plan works. If it doesn't, then we make our voices heard at the next election, just as we did when we voted in the coalition which let Labour know of their failings.

    Rather than cause damage which will obviously be down to the taxpayer to pay off, they should just deal with it as the majority of the country are doing. No one wants cuts in reality and everyone would rather have that extra money coming in, but we need them.

    In my opinion we should scrap trident because the majority of threats this country faces are internal, which is down to a flawed immigration policy. Why try and block threats from the outside when we're having extremists being taught in the very country itself? those involved with 7/7 were british born so the issue is clearly an internal one

    And the government has proposed structural reform, but its going to take time to do so and it needs to be done properly. I'd rather them take their time and do it correctly than rush into things and mess things up as Labour did which in the long run will be more costly.
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    There's a lot more that's wrong with the country than people opposing cuts..
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    (Original post by AreYouDizzeeBlud_x)
    I agree but how are we going to make them change their minds? nothing we do is going to make them go against their proposed ideas so in reality we should just accept it and hope that there plan works. If it doesn't, then we make our voices heard at the next election, just as we did when we voted in the coalition which let Labour know of their failings.

    Rather than cause damage which will obviously be down to the taxpayer to pay off, they should just deal with it as the majority of the country are doing. No one wants cuts in reality and everyone would rather have that extra money coming in, but we need them.

    In my opinion we should scrap trident because the majority of threats this country faces are internal, which is down to a flawed immigration policy. Why try and block threats from the outside when we're having extremists being taught in the very country itself? those involved with 7/7 were british born so the issue is clearly an internal one

    And the government has proposed structural reform, but its going to take time to do so and it needs to be done properly. I'd rather them take their time and do it correctly than rush into things and mess things up as Labour did which in the long run will be more costly.
    Local election defeats especially for the Lib Dems may have an impact. Labour far too often just threw money at an issue without proper or effective reform in delivery of services. Most PFI schemes were expensive or did not deliver, just think of the London Underground PPP for example.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    There's a lot more that's wrong with the country than people opposing cuts..
    Agreed.

    I never stated they were the only thing that was wrong
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    (Original post by AreYouDizzeeBlud_x)
    fair enough, in Oxford it may be difficult but its not where I am from in Cardiff.

    there is not that many homeless people in Cardiff.
    The fact that you're in Cardiff undermines your point... In Cardiff you have the Welsh Assembly committed to all but eliminating homelessness, whereas in England, it's set to increase drastically as a result of the cuts. The lesson seems to be that in an area without left-leaning governance, people do face the prospect of homelessness.
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    (Original post by dreiviergrenadier)
    The fact that you're in Cardiff undermines your point... In Cardiff you have the Welsh Assembly committed to all but eliminating homelessness, whereas in England, it's set to increase drastically as a result of the cuts. The lesson seems to be that in an area without left-leaning governance, people do face the prospect of homelessness.
    surely though, councils in England should take such things on board to eliminate it in their areas too?
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    (Original post by AreYouDizzeeBlud_x)
    surely though, councils in England should take such things on board to eliminate it in their areas too?
    They should, but it's a matter of priority. And when homelessness charities are facing large cuts, the situation looks rather desperate. Homeless support isn't really an issue many people care about, especially if, like you, they seem to think that it's not really an issue. It's therefore a soft target when councils have to make massive cuts (and poorer councils, which have the greatest need for these services, are facing disproportionate cuts!).

    In light of this, I really don't see how you can stand by your initial post. People need to be opposing these kind of cuts. The human impact will be very severe.
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    (Original post by dreiviergrenadier)
    They should, but it's a matter of priority. And when homelessness charities are facing large cuts, the situation looks rather desperate. Homeless support isn't really an issue many people care about, especially if, like you, they seem to think that it's not really an issue. It's therefore a soft target when councils have to make massive cuts (and poorer councils, which have the greatest need for these services, are facing disproportionate cuts!).

    In light of this, I really don't see how you can stand by your initial post. People need to be opposing these kind of cuts. The human impact will be very severe.
    Yes but protesting against it won't do a thing, if anything it makes the situation worse because we now have to pay for the damage caused.

    Its blatantly obvious that politicians will not listen to the people. The only time we can have a say is at the elections.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    There's a lot more that's wrong with the country than people opposing cuts..
    So true.

    At least when these people oppose what the government do they are allowed to, unlike in places like Libya and North Korea
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    (Original post by AreYouDizzeeBlud_x)
    Yes but protesting against it won't do a thing, if anything it makes the situation worse because we now have to pay for the damage caused.

    Its blatantly obvious that politicians will not listen to the people. The only time we can have a say is at the elections.
    But this is a very different claim to the one you started the thread with. At the beginning you made the claims:

    1) People don't face homelessness and extreme poverty as a result of the cuts; and

    2) People shouldn't be opposing these cuts.

    Now your claim is that:

    1) People do face homelessness and extreme poverty as a result of the cuts; and

    2) People shouldn't oppose these cuts in such a way as to cause damage (which costs money).


    From your new second claim, you also add that people ought to be against these kind of cuts (at elections). I assume from your comment about protesting means that if there were an effective method of protesting, you would endorse it. So for example, if homelessness became as big a public issue as forestry did, you'd support it.

    This reflects a major change of opinion from your first post, and I hope you've changed your mind accordingly.
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    (Original post by AreYouDizzeeBlud_x)
    Blah, blah, blah...
    People like you, who blindly believe Tory propaganda and thus got them into power, are what is wrong with this country.
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    (Original post by AreYouDizzeeBlud_x)
    Is it only me that believes this?

    We're facing cuts to build for the future yet these people only care about themselves without thinking about the long term impact if we never had cuts now.

    Its not only that but the fact that these cuts are not going to leave people in severe poverty or leave people struggling, yes they may have to budget a bit better, yes they may have to go without a luxury now and then that they could have previously afforded, but those are issues we all have to face together.

    In my opinion these people should be thankful that there is welfare in place that they can always fall back on, if the worst comes to the worst and that they will always have a roof over their heads, food on the table and clothes to keep them warm.

    These people are massively over exaggerating the impact of these cuts. There are people in the world struggling to survive every day who do not cause the mayhem that they have done today.

    To me its just a larger scale of ' the spoilt brat that attention seeks in order to get their own way '.

    Also, I can bet a lot of them are also the same people who blasted students for standing up against the tuition fee increase which was a lot more important. The tuition fee increase means people who want to go to university have to now take on board that they could have a massive amount of debt for the rest of their working lives. These cuts are not as severe, in any way at all.

    Okay, a lot of public sector jobs are being cut. However, that's Labours fault. They were the one who created occupations that weren't needed and didn't manage the public sector in the right way. I find it hypocritical of Miliband to slate the coalition yet its his own parties wrong doing that led to the mess in the first place. Now the coalition are trying to deal with this mess, they are trying to use it against them.

    Where were these people when Topshop and Vodafone were let off a massive tax bill? Nowhere to be seen because it didn't affect them on a personal level so they didn't care. Now the cuts may affect them due to them or relatives working in the public sector they care. Selfishness in my opinion.

    Japan has just gone through hell due to a natural disaster. People over there are struggling massively and living in poverty near enough yet over here people are in a far better position yet they still moan and expect more and more without realising why things need to be done as they lack any economic understanding.

    I also cannot stand how the media constantly use the word poor in this country. No one in this country is poor, not even those on the dole. They have sufficient enough money to live on and thats it. They have a roof put over their head by the taxpayer, they can claim money to spend on food and clothes as well. Poor is when you're struggling massively to be able to feed yourself. They are not poor. If they think they are then they seriously want to look at the people living in Eastern Europe still working in agriculture to live and count themselves lucky that in Britain they no longer need to do that to survive.

    I'm by no means a fan of the coalition or any of the parties in the UK but I believe that the coalition have done the right thing by addressing the absurd levels of money being wasted in the public sector.

    Seriously, people want to wake up and realise how fortunate we are that we do not live in a third world country and even with the harshest of cuts we can still depend on welfare. Some of the people in this country would be in for a serious shock had they been born in another country. The amount of greed and want is absurd.

    Plus no one even mentions the positives such as simplifying the tax system which in the long term will lead to less administration costs and funding for science facilities, 12 university technical colleges and more apprenticeships.

    Why don't they consider these? because of greed and selfish interests. Those same people should spare a moment for those in really bad situations and reflect on how lucky they are to be in the United Kingdom.
    Can you give me the number of your crack dealer? Seriously, if I could compose rants like this while high, I need to get in on dat s***!
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    (Original post by AreYouDizzeeBlud_x)
    thrown out on the street?

    if you lose your job in this country you can claim JSA.

    Therefore, you will always have a roof over your head and money to feed yourself.

    Why do people exaggerate?

    There are people living in far worse conditions in other parts of the world.
    There will always be someone worse off than yourself so that's a rather silly stance to take if you ask me (and yes, before you say anything, I know you didn't). If we applied your point then only one person in the entire world would be allowed to complain.
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    (Original post by Barden)
    People like you, who blindly believe Tory propaganda and thus got them into power, are what is wrong with this country.
    im not a Tory supporter you idiot.

    I dont believe any politicians to be honest but the fact is we have a Tory government, even as it is with the coalition.

    No point moaning about it. Just deal with it and make your voices heard at the next election.

    Do you honestly believe throwing a hissy fit in London and destroying property is going to benefit this country in the long run? no!
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    (Original post by lawology)
    There will always be someone worse off than yourself so that's a rather silly stance to take if you ask me (and yes, before you say anything, I know you didn't). If we applied your point then only one person in the entire world would be allowed to complain.
    no its not.

    because even the least well off person in the UK is in a far better position than people in Africa and Haiti, plus the many thousands affected by the Tsunami in Japan.

    Yet greed means they need to keep moaning about how they haven't got this and that. They should be grateful they always have the basic living requirements to fall back on if things do got wrong.
 
 
 
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