Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tillytots)
    been a veggie all my life. Never tried meat and never had the desire too. So no, I'm not trying to be cool or different
    Me too! Only met a very few outside my family the same! Do you constantly get questioned...
    "How do you know you don't like it if you've never tried it?"
    "But have you never just wanted bacon?"
    "What if theres no good veggie options at a restaurant?"
    "So what you've NEVER eaten meat? Don't believe you"
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Seems a bit unnecessarily hard on the fish. There are massive differences in our society between avoiding medicine, and avoiding animal products. The ease of doing the latter is so incredible whilst avoiding medicine can of course, easily lead to a cessation of life (also known as, death).
    Moreover they are often very different things. For example, by avoiding medicine you can pass on something if it's contagious, and if you do that over all, it's very likely a lot more medicine will be used by those people.


    My point wasn't that I'm perfect, I'm far from it and I see where the vast majority of my short comings are, but instead that that user should stop seeing their old and to be frank, ineffective changes as these glorious rays of exceptional morality (which is what they were implying) when they couldn't even be arsed to do the smallest levels of research on the topics.
    I agree with your point about fish. I'm going to try to stop eating fish.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lightburns)
    My Gran came from a veggie family. She used to buy bacon on the way home from school and eat it.

    Raw bacon.
    *shrugs* didn't make her ill. Maybe she was just lucky though.

    Anyway.. Do remember that humans have been cooking food for an incredibly long time. Enough to drastically affect our species. So it may well be that we are less suited to raw meat than other animals now. In the same way that we have small teeth so can't be grinding tough veg all day.
    That's impressive.

    I think the raw issue comes down to freshness really.

    Why did she do it though? I mean, I can understand that she wants to eat meat, but why raw bacon? That sounds crazy.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tillytots)
    Haha, everytime someone shows me meat or asks if I'd like to try it, I just can't bring myself to try it.

    Slightly off topic, but out of curiosity do you eat 'fake meat' (quorn chicken etc ) ? I know a lot of 'new' vegetarians as such who seem to live on it, but I've noticed it seems to be not as common in us life longs....
    I'm not a 'life-long' and I eat quorn- it's actually quite nice, doesnt hugely taste of meat. Full of protein too :]
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    I'm a lacto-vegetarian because I want to be. that's it. not trying to impress anyone but myself
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Harrifer)
    That's impressive.

    I think the raw issue comes down to freshness really.

    Why did she do it though? I mean, I can understand that she wants to eat meat, but why raw bacon? That sounds crazy.
    This was when she was a kid - veggie family and she had to find a way to sneakily eat meat. Couldn't exactly cook it. And this was some time ago, so you couldn't so easily go and buy cooked meat. So she got the next best thing. Raw meat. She probably had no idea that anything from a pig is mightily more dangerous than other meats.

    She should have just talked to her parents though.. They eventually found out and immediately switched to being a meat-eating family.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by -Invidious-)
    "we don't have a necessary enzyme that digests meat"
    If anyone thinks that, they must have been asleep in biology lessons
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lightburns)
    This was when she was a kid - veggie family and she had to find a way to sneakily eat meat. Couldn't exactly cook it. And this was some time ago, so you couldn't so easily go and buy cooked meat. So she got the next best thing. Raw meat. She probably had no idea that anything from a pig is mightily more dangerous than other meats.

    She should have just talked to her parents though.. They eventually found out and immediately switched to being a meat-eating family.
    It must have been pretty unusual for them to be vegetarians back then. I'm guessing this was some time between around 1950 or earlier. Obviously there always have been vegetarians, but I think after the war they were a very small number.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by there's too much love)
    <Insert equally senseless comeback that bares no meaning beyound that of someone with an inability to think things through or articulate themselves in a helpful manner, end it with 'end of' and leave out the full stop to be cool!>
    -If people did not eat meat, those animals would not be bred at all, i.e. they would have no life
    -Just because you are not eating meat doesn't mean that any difference has been made to the meat industry and therefore your mini-protest is pointless
    -Many vegetarians will still wear leather coats and shoes and use products that have been tested on animals? what's the difference?
    -Whilst we're on the subject of animal testing, it is absolutely necessary for drugs and also, it's the law, but i suppose you still take your paracetamol or antibiotics when you're ill so in this sense you're being a hypocrite
    -Meat provides essential amino acids for your diet, why else do they need to take supplements all the time?
    -Many vegetarians are deficient in vitamin K which means they they tend to get ill more often, and then have to take more drugs that have been tested on animals
    -You cause a large inconvenience for any host and generally feel the need to preach or make comments about other people eating meat, which is annoying
    -The body craves meat, I know a girl who has been brought up vegetarian (she is 4) and begs her grandmother for it
    -People have been eating meat for thousands of years, it's bound up in our biology to eat it, you wouldn't stop breathing because you felt bad for the air?
    -Also, vegetarians who eat fish bear no logic.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    ^I admire those who have the courage to reply to your ..."arguments".
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -If people did not eat meat, those animals would not be bred at all, i.e. they would have no life
    -Just because you are not eating meat doesn't mean that any difference has been made to the meat industry and therefore your mini-protest is pointless
    -Many vegetarians will still wear leather coats and shoes and use products that have been tested on animals? what's the difference?
    -Whilst we're on the subject of animal testing, it is absolutely necessary for drugs and also, it's the law, but i suppose you still take your paracetamol or antibiotics when you're ill so in this sense you're being a hypocrite
    -Meat provides essential amino acids for your diet, why else do they need to take supplements all the time?
    -Many vegetarians are deficient in vitamin K which means they they tend to get ill more often, and then have to take more drugs that have been tested on animals
    -You cause a large inconvenience for any host and generally feel the need to preach or make comments about other people eating meat, which is annoying
    -The body craves meat, I know a girl who has been brought up vegetarian (she is 4) and begs her grandmother for it
    -People have been eating meat for thousands of years, it's bound up in our biology to eat it, you wouldn't stop breathing because you felt bad for the air?
    -Also, vegetarians who eat fish bear no logic.
    *sigh*.
    I'll humour you for the moment.

    1)So you think that the animals ought to be bred?
    Read some Parfit on things like, the non-identity problem.
    What rational reason do you have that claims they ought to be bred?

    2) If it was just me who was abstaining, I might, might agree. But it's not, it's a group of people, and that group for the moment seems to be on the rise (at least in my area).

    3) "-Many vegetarians will still wear leather coats and shoes and use products that have been tested on animals? what's the difference?"
    I didn't say there was a difference.

    4) Whilst we're on the subject of animal testing, it is absolutely necessary for drugs and also, it's the law, but i suppose you still take your paracetamol or antibiotics when you're ill so in this sense you're being a hypocrite.

    My arguments for taking drugs revolve around a need to take the drugs in order to survive, and taking them so that I don't pass things on, because then more drugs will be needed by more people.

    5) -Meat provides essential amino acids for your diet, why else do they need to take supplements all the time?
    The only thing I feel a need to supplement is B12. That's because I don't eat meat, most of the B12 you get from meat is also through supplementation, as the animals are given it not for their health, but for the health of meat eaters.

    Moreover all the essential amino acids can be found in vegan food.

    Lastly, supplements aren't some kind of bad thing.

    Finally, if I really felt like I wasn't getting enough B12 there are three things I would consider doing. Getting a B12 injection.
    Consuming my own semen.
    Eating unwashed organic vegetables, a study was done on a group of vegans about a decade ago. It was expected that they would have a B12 deficiency. After some hard researching into their diet in turned out that they weren't washing their organic veg as much as most people would.

    6)-Many vegetarians are deficient in vitamin K which means they they tend to get ill more often, and then have to take more drugs that have been tested on animals

    Source?
    Level of deficiency?
    Source of link between them being ill as a result of the deficiency?
    And when the following material is taken into account, that's not an argument against vegetarianism, that's an argument against having a poor diet.

    Personally I eat plenty of peas, lentils, green leafy vegetables, broccoli, which are all full of many great things. Guess what nutrient they all have nice amounts of?

    7) -You cause a large inconvenience for any host and generally feel the need to preach or make comments about other people eating meat, which is annoying

    Maybe if the people I went to see where thick as pig **** I'd have a problem. Fortunately none of them are, and I personally make sure they're aware of simple vegan recipes they can easily cook up. Shockingly no, I don't have to eat very extravagant food every meal where the ingredients cost a fortune, there are these brilliant things called vegetables, and anyone who can't make a simple vegan pasta sauce or vegetable curry ought to be banned from going anywhere near a kitchen.

    8) -The body craves meat, I know a girl who has been brought up vegetarian (she is 4) and begs her grandmother for it
    <insert random anecdote with no evidence and make random assumptions about the needs of the human body>.
    What are you? 14? **** off and get some evidence you lazy *******.

    9)-People have been eating meat for thousands of years, it's bound up in our biology to eat it, you wouldn't stop breathing because you felt bad for the air?
    So you're trying to claim that it's bad for you to not eat meat?
    Again, source?

    10)-Also, vegetarians who eat fish bear no logic.
    You mean, pescatarians? It depends why they're pescatarian, but many however illogical they are will most likely have a better grasp on critical thinking than you seem to.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bourgeois)
    ^I admire those who have the courage to reply to your ...&quot;arguments&quot;.
    It's not courage, it's avoidance of tidying my room, which is avoidance of doing my Fodor essay.

    Edit: Also known as, meta-procrastination.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -If people did not eat meat, those animals would not be bred at all, i.e. they would have no life
    So your argument here is, "instead of letting them die out or evolve as nature dictates, we should breed them to kill them, cause that's the nicer thing to do"? Bull****. If they can't survive without us, we have three choices: set them free and let them die out; reduce their numbers and turn them into pets, etc. or give them to specialist animal sanctuaries.

    I personally have no issue with letting them die out, if that's what nature dictates, just so you know. At least then they've had a chance of a real life, not the slavery they're in now.

    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -Just because you are not eating meat doesn't mean that any difference has been made to the meat industry and therefore your mini-protest is pointless
    Oh, please, the whole "one vote won't make a difference" argument? No. Bull****. If everyone felt that way, nothing would ever change. Of course the meat industry isn't going to notice just one stopping, but that one influences friends and family and the amount of vegetarians and vegans grow. So there is a point.


    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -Many vegetarians will still wear leather coats and shoes and use products that have been tested on animals? what's the difference?
    Many vegetarians aren't vegetarian for ethical reasons. Others wear leather shoes due to medical reasons. It's different for each person.

    You're right though, they should, and I include myself in this cause I wear leather boots, should stop using all animal related products which involve the suffering of animals. However, that's not possible for everything.


    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -Whilst we're on the subject of animal testing, it is absolutely necessary for drugs and also, it's the law, but i suppose you still take your paracetamol or antibiotics when you're ill so in this sense you're being a hypocrite
    It's not necessary. We could test on humans if we really wanted, we just refuse to because it'd be called "abuse of power" or there'd be accusations of coercion or forcing the poor into tests beause they need the money badly.


    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -Meat provides essential amino acids for your diet, why else do they need to take supplements all the time?
    As I have shown elsewhere, all amino acids can be found outside of animal products, including the essential ones.


    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -Many vegetarians are deficient in vitamin K which means they they tend to get ill more often, and then have to take more drugs that have been tested on animals
    Source? Many vegetarians have a bad diet, that doesn't make vegetarianism bad. When they eat a proper diet, vegetarians need no supplements, have a better immune system and have a 10% higher life expectancy.

    This may be anecdotal, but it works: every meat eater I know gets ill more often than me.


    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -You cause a large inconvenience for any host and generally feel the need to preach or make comments about other people eating meat, which is annoying
    Not every vegetarian preaches, I rarely do and only when the topic is brought up by others. Don't tar us all with the same brush.


    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -The body craves meat, I know a girl who has been brought up vegetarian (she is 4) and begs her grandmother for it
    The body doesn't crave meat. I grew up eating very little other than meat. I used to devour 14oz steaks without any vegetables for dinner, etc. I haven't missed meat once in the 8 years that I've been vegetarian, nor have I ever craved it.

    People I know who aren't vegetarian but often go for long stretches without meat always complain that after eating meat, their mucus production has increased, they feel more tired and sluggish and have less energy in general. If meat is so good for us, it wouldn't cause that kind of reaction in our bodies.

    Children beg for sweets and crisps and toys, are you going to argue that this proves they need those things?


    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -People have been eating meat for thousands of years, it's bound up in our biology to eat it, you wouldn't stop breathing because you felt bad for the air?
    Oh, please. We've been eating cooked meat for years, which is not the same thing as any other omnivore or carnivore in this world. Humans are very good at adapting and at doing things bad for us. Meat is one of those things.

    Do you want to argue that doing drugs and drinking beer or caffeine is also bound up in our biology? We've been doing those things for thousands of years too.


    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -Also, vegetarians who eat fish bear no logic.
    That's why they're not vegetarians, they're called "pescetarians".'


    (Original post by Cybele)
    We can eat meat/fish raw to an extent. Ever heard of steak tartar? Sushi? True carnivores have high levels of enzymes/acids which effectively kill off all nasty bacteria which is sometimes found on raw meat, humans learned that they were less likely to fall ill if they cooked their meat first. There are some people who will eat raw meat - inuits will often eat raw flesh/organs of animals they've hunted. I highly suspect that because most people are so used to eating cooked meat, suddenly switching to raw won't do us any good. But yes, we can eat raw meat, but it's hard to know which meat is free from harmful bacteria and which isn't.
    Okay, I'll amend my statement, why do we need to cook it to be properly digestable? Inuits, for example, tend to be very unhealthy people with digestive tract problems. That we eat it raw doesn't mean we can digest it properly or that it's good for us.

    For instance, consumption of meat has been traced to colon cancer, because it gets stuck down there and starts rotting because we can't digest it properly.


    (Original post by there's too much love)
    The word torture for me has connotations to someone doing it for information or pleasure. The suffering itself isn't done as that, but instead necessarily happens. The responsibility doesn't change, but the concept does.
    I disagree, torture for me means the deliberate mistreatment of anyone where it is not necessary and is done for any kind of gain.

    (Original post by there's too much love)
    One question is, can we make a system where the animals don't suffer at all?
    I'm not sure that at the moment we can. It's not a matter of technology, but instead economy/resources.
    I reckon we could, if we put the money into it, which we aren't. I am okay with dairy farming, though I'd prefer it to be without the whole rape and taking away of calves. Dairy farming can be ethical and I look on it as a prototype of "work for stay". The cows get looked after, they give something in return. Obviously we need to change the system, and utterly remove the meat industry, but dairy farming is not necessarily that bad. At the moment, however, it is.

    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Another issue is, vets in the farming field aren't exactly the most common of people. They're trained to look at things from a profit incentive for the farmer. If an animal can't be profitable, it'll go. The question of the animals health necessarily is taken in the context of the profit for the farmer. This all seems problematic.
    I disagree. My mother was a farm-vet for a while, and she did it to help all animals, regardless of what the farmer thought.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by there's too much love)
    *sigh*.
    I'll humour you for the moment.

    1)So you think that the animals ought to be bred?
    Read some Parfit on things like, the non-identity problem.
    What rational reason do you have that claims they ought to be bred?

    2) If it was just me who was abstaining, I might, might agree. But it's not, it's a group of people, and that group for the moment seems to be on the rise (at least in my area).

    3) "-Many vegetarians will still wear leather coats and shoes and use products that have been tested on animals? what's the difference?"
    I didn't say there was a difference.

    4) Whilst we're on the subject of animal testing, it is absolutely necessary for drugs and also, it's the law, but i suppose you still take your paracetamol or antibiotics when you're ill so in this sense you're being a hypocrite.

    My arguments for taking drugs revolve around a need to take the drugs in order to survive, and taking them so that I don't pass things on, because then more drugs will be needed by more people.

    5) -Meat provides essential amino acids for your diet, why else do they need to take supplements all the time?
    The only thing I feel a need to supplement is B12. That's because I don't eat meat, most of the B12 you get from meat is also through supplementation, as the animals are given it not for their health, but for the health of meat eaters.

    Moreover all the essential amino acids can be found in vegan food.

    Lastly, supplements aren't some kind of bad thing.

    Finally, if I really felt like I wasn't getting enough B12 there are three things I would consider doing. Getting a B12 injection.
    Consuming my own semen.
    Eating unwashed organic vegetables, a study was done on a group of vegans about a decade ago. It was expected that they would have a B12 deficiency. After some hard researching into their diet in turned out that they weren't washing their organic veg as much as most people would.

    6)-Many vegetarians are deficient in vitamin K which means they they tend to get ill more often, and then have to take more drugs that have been tested on animals

    Source?
    Level of deficiency?
    Source of link between them being ill as a result of the deficiency?
    And when the following material is taken into account, that's not an argument against vegetarianism, that's an argument against having a poor diet.

    Personally I eat plenty of peas, lentils, green leafy vegetables, broccoli, which are all full of many great things. Guess what nutrient they all have nice amounts of?

    7) -You cause a large inconvenience for any host and generally feel the need to preach or make comments about other people eating meat, which is annoying

    Maybe if the people I went to see where thick as pig **** I'd have a problem. Fortunately none of them are, and I personally make sure they're aware of simple vegan recipes they can easily cook up. Shockingly no, I don't have to eat very extravagant food every meal where the ingredients cost a fortune, there are these brilliant things called vegetables, and anyone who can't make a simple vegan pasta sauce or vegetable curry ought to be banned from going anywhere near a kitchen.

    8) -The body craves meat, I know a girl who has been brought up vegetarian (she is 4) and begs her grandmother for it
    <insert random anecdote with no evidence and make random assumptions about the needs of the human body>.
    What are you? 14? **** off and get some evidence you lazy *******.

    9)-People have been eating meat for thousands of years, it's bound up in our biology to eat it, you wouldn't stop breathing because you felt bad for the air?
    So you're trying to claim that it's bad for you to not eat meat?
    Again, source?

    10)-Also, vegetarians who eat fish bear no logic.
    You mean, pescatarians? It depends why they're pescatarian, but many however illogical they are will most likely have a better grasp on critical thinking than you seem to.
    If they're not bred then they don't live, i thought you wanted animals to live?
    people are never going to stop eating meat
    If there's no difference then it's complete hypocrisy
    Surely the fact that you have to take unnatural supplements prove that you're supposed to eat meat?
    Why should people go out of their way to accommodate you?
    I'm merely saying that it clearly hasn't harmed people for thousands of years, it's clearly what we're evolutionarily supposed to do
    Pescatarians that think fish are less worthy, i've even heard a claim about no CNS,

    basically, they're only animals, they serve no other real purpose, we may as well eat them, get off your self-righteous vegetarian high horse
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Meat is murder.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alison1992)
    -If people did not eat meat, those animals would not be bred at all, i.e. they would have no life
    -Just because you are not eating meat doesn't mean that any difference has been made to the meat industry and therefore your mini-protest is pointless
    -Many vegetarians will still wear leather coats and shoes and use products that have been tested on animals? what's the difference?
    -Whilst we're on the subject of animal testing, it is absolutely necessary for drugs and also, it's the law, but i suppose you still take your paracetamol or antibiotics when you're ill so in this sense you're being a hypocrite
    -Meat provides essential amino acids for your diet, why else do they need to take supplements all the time?
    -Many vegetarians are deficient in vitamin K which means they they tend to get ill more often, and then have to take more drugs that have been tested on animals
    -You cause a large inconvenience for any host and generally feel the need to preach or make comments about other people eating meat, which is annoying
    -The body craves meat, I know a girl who has been brought up vegetarian (she is 4) and begs her grandmother for it
    -People have been eating meat for thousands of years, it's bound up in our biology to eat it, you wouldn't stop breathing because you felt bad for the air?
    -Also, vegetarians who eat fish bear no logic.
    -Life isn't automatically good, some aren't worth being put through.
    -Individually no it doesn't make a difference, but the movement has, and is increasingly so all the time. You'll never find restaurants without vegetarian options now, and with meat substitutes taking off and all that, it's all less meat bought into stores and the like, which is where it does make a difference. If you bother voting, or anything like that, you can't comment there.
    -They're idiots, yeah.
    -Closest you've got to an argument, it is messed up. Can't stop it, so just got to hope for it as a lesser of two evils.
    -I'm Vegan and take none. It's not essential in the slightest you can get them all from plant sources, don't need any supplements.
    -They're idiots that don't pay attention to their diet. Omnivores have the same problem.
    -Don't invite us along if you're that lazy. Also, practically no-one makes comments. My housemates didn't know I'd started till 4 months later because there's no reason to, most do turn out that way. You only know about the vocal minority.
    -No it doesn't... If you're changed rather than life long and don't balance your diet properly it will do because your body knows it needs it. The one you know, is just a kid doing what they do.
    -No reason to feel bad for air, don't be a prat, you were generally making decent points until now. Maybe not right, but decent at least for the most part. The way we used to do things is also a crap argument.
    -Pescetarians? Can't say I see the point in stopping at that personally, but it beats a normal diet from a moral standpoint still.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Harrifer)
    It must have been pretty unusual for them to be vegetarians back then. I'm guessing this was some time between around 1950 or earlier. Obviously there always have been vegetarians, but I think after the war they were a very small number.
    (Oma and Opa are German words.. what I called my great-grandparents)
    In the 1930s Opa was very idealistic.. trying to live on berries and virtually nothing else. Oma kind of took pity on him because it wasn't enough to sustain him. They tried to bring up my Gran on the same (but less extreme) kind of diet. Yeah, didn't work. I think it was a sort of final-nail-in-the-coffin sort of situation to that weirdo diet.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hylean)
    So your argument here is, "instead of letting them die out or evolve as nature dictates, we should breed them to kill them, cause that's the nicer thing to do"? Bull****. If they can't survive without us, we have three choices: set them free and let them die out; reduce their numbers and turn them into pets, etc. or give them to specialist animal sanctuaries.

    I personally have no issue with letting them die out, if that's what nature dictates, just so you know. At least then they've had a chance of a real life, not the slavery they're in now.



    Oh, please, the whole "one vote won't make a difference" argument? No. Bull****. If everyone felt that way, nothing would ever change. Of course the meat industry isn't going to notice just one stopping, but that one influences friends and family and the amount of vegetarians and vegans grow. So there is a point.




    Many vegetarians aren't vegetarian for ethical reasons. Others wear leather shoes due to medical reasons. It's different for each person.

    You're right though, they should, and I include myself in this cause I wear leather boots, should stop using all animal related products which involve the suffering of animals. However, that's not possible for everything.




    It's not necessary. We could test on humans if we really wanted, we just refuse to because it'd be called "abuse of power" or there'd be accusations of coercion or forcing the poor into tests beause they need the money badly.




    As I have shown elsewhere, all amino acids can be found outside of animal products, including the essential ones.




    Source? Many vegetarians have a bad diet, that doesn't make vegetarianism bad. When they eat a proper diet, vegetarians need no supplements, have a better immune system and have a 10% higher life expectancy.

    This may be anecdotal, but it works: every meat eater I know gets ill more often than me.




    Not every vegetarian preaches, I rarely do and only when the topic is brought up by others. Don't tar us all with the same brush.




    The body doesn't crave meat. I grew up eating very little other than meat. I used to devour 14oz steaks without any vegetables for dinner, etc. I haven't missed meat once in the 8 years that I've been vegetarian, nor have I ever craved it.

    People I know who aren't vegetarian but often go for long stretches without meat always complain that after eating meat, their mucus production has increased, they feel more tired and sluggish and have less energy in general. If meat is so good for us, it wouldn't cause that kind of reaction in our bodies.

    Children beg for sweets and crisps and toys, are you going to argue that this proves they need those things?




    Oh, please. We've been eating cooked meat for years, which is not the same thing as any other omnivore or carnivore in this world. Humans are very good at adapting and at doing things bad for us. Meat is one of those things.

    Do you want to argue that doing drugs and drinking beer or caffeine is also bound up in our biology? We've been doing those things for thousands of years too.




    That's why they're not vegetarians, they're called "pescetarians".'




    Okay, I'll amend my statement, why do we need to cook it to be properly digestable? Inuits, for example, tend to be very unhealthy people with digestive tract problems. That we eat it raw doesn't mean we can digest it properly or that it's good for us.

    For instance, consumption of meat has been traced to colon cancer, because it gets stuck down there and starts rotting because we can't digest it properly.




    I disagree, torture for me means the deliberate mistreatment of anyone where it is not necessary and is done for any kind of gain.



    I reckon we could, if we put the money into it, which we aren't. I am okay with dairy farming, though I'd prefer it to be without the whole rape and taking away of calves. Dairy farming can be ethical and I look on it as a prototype of "work for stay". The cows get looked after, they give something in return. Obviously we need to change the system, and utterly remove the meat industry, but dairy farming is not necessarily that bad. At the moment, however, it is.



    I disagree. My mother was a farm-vet for a while, and she did it to help all animals, regardless of what the farmer thought.
    so you're saying we should test on humans? care to give up your mum to medical science?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alison1992)
    so you're saying we should test on humans? care to give up your mum to medical science?
    Wow, what a great response after all the time I took to shoot you down. Guess that means I win.

    If my mum was willing to do stage 1 medical trials, that would be her choice. I may not like it in case she died, but she's more than welcome to do it.

    It's all about choice. We don't give animals the choice and we don't treat them respect. We draw arbitrary lines between food-animals and pet-animals and wild-animals just because we can. It's senseless. Animals should be treated equally and with respect and we should halt this god damn line drawing between us and them.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alison1992)
    If they're not bred then they don't live, i thought you wanted animals to live?
    people are never going to stop eating meat
    If there's no difference then it's complete hypocrisy
    Surely the fact that you have to take unnatural supplements prove that you're supposed to eat meat?
    Why should people go out of their way to accommodate you?
    I'm merely saying that it clearly hasn't harmed people for thousands of years, it's clearly what we're evolutionarily supposed to do
    Pescatarians that think fish are less worthy, i've even heard a claim about no CNS,

    basically, they're only animals, they serve no other real purpose, we may as well eat them, get off your self-righteous vegetarian high horse
    At least you're consistent in your bid to fail.

    On your first argument, that would require people to make as many animals as possible. If you can find me one person who holds that view that isn't thick as pig ****, I'll give you a cookie.
    Wanting animals already in existence to suffer the least amount possible =/= wanting as many animals to exist as possible.

    Many people have stopped eating meat. Whether the whole of a society does or not, depends on what happens with that society. Once upon a time people said slavery would never end, okay so we have 'free' people in sweatshops abroad, but that's not our society, it's effected by our society, it's another thing I disagree with, but we don't have the power to stop it without bringing about worse consequences at the moment.

    Are you honestly claiming that because some vegetarians wear leather it means there can be no point in vegetarianism? Some humans break laws, that doesn't mean there can be no point in having laws.

    "Surely the fact that you have to take unnatural supplements prove that you're supposed to eat meat?"
    You're right, we should definitely ignore the naturalism fallacy, and the manner in which we treat farm animals, what we feed them, how they're bred, that's "natural".

    You should read what Homles Rolsten III (epic name) wrote about the term 'The Environment'.

    "Why should people go out of their way to accommodate you?"
    Gee, it's almost as if I hang around with people who I'm friends with...
    ...you realise people accommodate each other constantly in almost every part of daily life?

    "I'm merely saying that it clearly hasn't harmed people for thousands of years, it's clearly what we're evolutionarily supposed to do"
    How are we using the term person?
    Are we just taking it to be synonymous with human? If so look up speciesism.
    Moreover that presuposses the argument for someone being vegetarian is about health. For some it is, but you keep making these sweeping statements as if every vegetarian, vegan, pescatarian, have come to the conclusions they have because of the same reasons as other vegetarians, vegans and pescatarians.

    to put it more simply for you:
    P -> Q
    P
    Q

    R -> Q
    R
    Q

    Same conclusion, different cause.

    "Pescatarians that think fish are less worthy, i've even heard a claim about no CNS, "
    See above statements.


    "
    basically, they're only animals, they serve no other real purpose, we may as well eat them, get off your self-righteous vegetarian high horse"
    I'm responding to you, I'm not being self-righteous, but you're being thick.

    The meaning over the world I'd argue comes from us. Whatever meaning we project. This is also known as a social constructivist point of view.
    I don't see where a need for animals to serve our purposes comes from.
    I do see that I think unnecessary pain is bad.
    I don't like being in pain.
    Others don't like being in pain (apart from what I call 'positive pain, in the cases of things like BDSM, although that doesn't necessitate pain).
    why should we view animals in pain as arbitrary whilst viewing humans being in pain as important?
    Or are you all for us beating each other up, raping and sexually assaulting one another?


    Lastly, if we may as well eat them, why is it any different for me to kill and eat you?
    What is this quality in humans you seem to see that isn't in any other animal?
    Or are you just being speciesist?
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: April 3, 2011
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.