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A Y A Z
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#4561
Report 12 years ago
#4561
Agreed.

Why should Collingwood do everything for England? Its time the others stepped up to the plate and performed as a team. Only then can England win. It won't matter if Giles it dropped and Monty is brought in.
Even if he manages to take all 10 wickets, the BATTING has to be good enough to support him!
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bikerx23
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#4562
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#4562
Well...the first innings of the last test and second of the first showed that the batting was good enough - they just need to be more team-cohesive.
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Horrorshow
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#4563
Report 12 years ago
#4563
(Original post by Iscariot)
I see that point too, my beef really is that Jones came in just before this series in the first place when Read did absolutely nothing to warrant being dropped for someone who was performing worse than he was.
Yeah that's a fair point. I really wish England would explain their decisions more clearly.
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bikerx23
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#4564
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#4564
(Original post by Nathan Ley3)
Yeah that's a fair point. I really wish England would explain their decisions more clearly.
they do normally, atleast when its a home series, because its done with a selection panel - giving someone so clearly biased as fletcher the choice is ludicrous. I'm personally surprised he didn't pick dalrymple over giles anyway - he's been playing well and deserves a test run, and can certainly contribute with the bat to make him a worthwhile player (he'd probably bat at 6/7 too...infront of Read).
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Iscariot
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#4565
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#4565
(Original post by Nathan Ley3)
Yeah that's a fair point. I really wish England would explain their decisions more clearly.
Fletcher and Flintoff make up the selection panel - with the help of Strauss, Collingwood and Jones whilst England are on tour.

a) - The favouritism toward Jones by Fletcher is clear, considering that Jones is a member of players who picks the team, having only been brought back into the team two minutes ago.

b) - Giles is known to be a favourite of Flintoff's and this is where Flintoff needs to character to back off and let the truth hurt him. While Fletcher is very keen for a team to 'bat' down to 8 (Australia bat down to 9 really, with Lee being fairly capable with the willow). Between the two of them Giles picks himself.

PS: The reason why Trescothick's stress related stuff arose is because supposedly Vaughan was getting on his wife. I do a lot of district cricket coaching and my boss is the works at the KCB and it's the word that's going round the ECB offices. Where there's smoke... It all started in India when Trescothick was on tour, but Vaughan however was back in the UK after hurting his knee in Pakistan.
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tis_me_lord
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#4566
Report Thread starter 12 years ago
#4566
(Original post by Iscariot)
The reason why Trescothick's stress related stuff arose is because supposedly Vaughan was getting on his wife. I do a lot of district cricket coaching and my boss is the works at the KCB and it's the word that's going round the ECB offices. Where there's smoke... It all started in India when Trescothick was on tour, but Vaughan however was back in the UK after hurting his knee in Pakistan.

WHAT?! :mad:

I am going to march down to Taunton and castrate the man if he hurts Tresco.

(Randomly is in love with Tresco, we should all know that by now.)
Horrorshow
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#4567
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#4567
(Original post by Iscariot)
PS: The reason why Trescothick's stress related stuff arose is because supposedly Vaughan was getting on his wife. I do a lot of district cricket coaching and my boss is the works at the KCB and it's the word that's going round the ECB offices. Where there's smoke... It all started in India when Trescothick was on tour, but Vaughan however was back in the UK after hurting his knee in Pakistan.
Did I just read that correctly :eek:.....
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Klinsmannic
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#4568
Report 12 years ago
#4568
Fletcher picks the starting 11, no one else. Obviously Flintoff can make suggestions, but I would be amazed if Jones had any input in team selection...amazed.

I don't have anything against Cook, but I think he is the only droppable player in the top 6. Vaughan has a great record over there, and could instill the Aussies with a bit of fear. Something needs to be changed. The main reason I would pick Mahmood is because of his pace and bounce...I know Perth isn't the trampoline of old, but we've seen Anderson get smacked thus far.

Monty will be in the next side, it's a no-brainer. Giles was supposedly picked for his fielding and batting, which both failed him in the last test.

Shah is on form at the moment, but I don't think he's available for selection, correct me if I'm wrong. Besides, Shah has had a chance and not really taken it so I can't see Fletcher going back to him...not yet anyway.

Edit: the story about Vaughan sounds crazy! I thought he was happily married?
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Horrorshow
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#4569
Report 12 years ago
#4569
I don't think putting vaughan in the team is an option. He would need many, many matches to regain his match fitness and mentality, aswell as his timing for the pull/cut shots etc.
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Iscariot
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#4570
Report 12 years ago
#4570
I never said there was any substance to the story, but you notice that Trescothick's first instance of coming home for "personal reasons" was during India when Vaughan had already flown home. Then again he didn't want to leave for India. Also he came back from Australia while Vaughan was still in the UK. It's probably just a silly rumour with no real substance except the coincidence of him always wanting to be in the UK when Vaughan is in the UK. It's probably nothing more than idle office talk. Just because someone's happily married on the outside doesn't mean that they don't cheat or they don't have problems. How much do we really know about what goes on behind closed doors? Very little.

Regarding Fletcher's "mini-selection" panel, I quote cricinfo.com for this Fletcher quote:

"Andrew and I have the final say," he confirmed, adding that the mysterious selection committee didn't include David Graveney or any of the home selectors, but instead consisted of a panel of senior players - Andrew Strauss, Paul Collingwood and Jones - who are consulted prior to each Test. Given that Jones, who does not currently have a central contract, is one of the most contentious choices on this tour already, it is a further sign that Shane Warne was spot on in his pre-series assessment, when he claimed that Fletcher has his "favourites".
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bikerx23
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#4571
Report 12 years ago
#4571
Vaughan isn't in the UK...

I must say - warney is doing a great job of wangling a future spot on TMS by being spot on with his analysis of the England team.
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Iscariot
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#4572
Report 12 years ago
#4572
He was at the beginning of the tour. He flew out of the UK with the academy squad which left later than the actual Ashes squad.

Warne will be on TV presenting something about 30 seconds after the end of his final game. In fact he'll probably do the presentation ceremony instead of our dear Mark at the end of his final test match for Channel 9.
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bikerx23
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#4573
Report 12 years ago
#4573
I dunno...he does seem like the sort who would enjoy the TMS banter - I hope so, as he'd be a great catch - the modern benaut, perhaps.

We may be lucky and get him swapping between that and the Aus telly channels - for the ashes atleast.
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Alasdair
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#4574
Report 12 years ago
#4574
(Original post by a fire in the sky)
I dunno...he does seem like the sort who would enjoy the TMS banter - I hope so, as he'd be a great catch - the modern benaut, perhaps.

We may be lucky and get him swapping between that and the Aus telly channels - for the ashes atleast.
I imagine he'll do TV rather than TMS - the money's probably better.
benisright
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#4575
Report 12 years ago
#4575
(Original post by Iscariot)
He was at the beginning of the tour. He flew out of the UK with the academy squad which left later than the actual Ashes squad.

Warne will be on TV presenting something about 30 seconds after the end of his final game. In fact he'll probably do the presentation ceremony instead of our dear Mark at the end of his final test match for Channel 9.
I do remember seeing the England team in our union, a small group of 6. Tresco was there, but Vaughan wasnt...ooh
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mike89
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#4576
Report 12 years ago
#4576
I stated the importance of wicket taking bowlers before the ashes began and I was getting arguments that the tail is very important and many preferred Giles over Monty due to the 20 odd runs he can score (+the fact that he was a better fielder as we saw in Adelaide). This decision may have caused us the ashes. I see fletcher and co. want someone who can score runs as well as bowl but I don’t see how he does not get the fact that the more monty plays the more his batting will improve (and fielding)? It will not go downhill, will it? I will not be surprised if monty does not play in the next match because after all its fletcher and its England. Im glad all the giles supporters are now happy. It’s a simple theory-no monty=no ashes.:talkhand:






on a side note...a personal message to duncan fletcher.........;upyours;
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benisright
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#4577
Report 12 years ago
#4577
Yeah, surely everyone knew we won the ashes last year due to our ability to take 20 of australia's wickets. Nothing to do with the batting line up or the people in the side. That seems to have been disregarded this ashes tour in favour of people who have won it before (even if they are not good enough now...i.e. giles) or a strong batting line up.

Even so, the first priority in any test line up is to play your "in form" players. If we were playing against South Africa this test series, we would have played panesar and reed because they were in form (like we did against Pakistan). However because its the ashes, we've played people who Fletcher thought could beat the aussies. Its ridiculous. Play on our own merit not on who we are playing, and we would have stood a better chance. This ashes series has been diabolical and we need to sack Fletcher the moment we get home and seriously have a think about what we do when we go abroad.
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A Y A Z
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#4578
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#4578
Yes! Pakistan one up in the series. Yes, it wasn't THAT convincing, but its a victory!

Inzamam sent out a powerful message; why the team needs him till the World Cup. What a player. Calm, cool, collected and ready to explode!
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tis_me_lord
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#4579
Report Thread starter 12 years ago
#4579
Sri Lanka not doing very well.
A Y A Z
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#4580
Report 12 years ago
#4580
Whats the score?
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