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    (Original post by Suc-Cesc!!!)
    Bell gets the MOTM award with the umpire a close second.
    oh come on. it was only one decision against India iirc. The losing wickets in 2s was bad and the running between wickets/fielding...:eek:
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    Dhoni has lost form, and India cannot afford playing two wickies in the same team, especially when you've only got six batsmen.
    It doesn't matter. Karthik's only playing as a batsman. I can't think who else would replace him. We were one batsman light. The 5th bowler didn't particularly help much. So really...bit of a muddle in the middle order for Dravid to sort out. I suspect its time to unleash Uthappa up the order (say, no. 3) and hope for the best.
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    I hate to say this, but Indian fans have a bit of a habit of blaming the umps when they lose...
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    (Original post by biggie-n)
    It doesn't matter. Karthik's only playing as a batsman. I can't think who else would replace him. We were one batsman light. The 5th bowler didn't particularly help much.
    Thats precisely the point, he isn't good enough to play as a batsman alone IMO in ODIs. I reckon Kaif or Raina should be back, and are more suited to playing at 6 or 7.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    Thats precisely the point, he isn't good enough to play as a batsman alone IMO in ODIs. I reckon Kaif or Raina should be back, and are more suited to playing at 6 or 7.
    He's played a few good knocks recently. Kaif and Raina both had long stints. Its only fair Karthik gets the same. But I don't think no. 3 is necessarily his spot. He batted well with the tail in the first ODI so no.7 should be his spot. Dhoni at 3 would have worked better imo.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    I hate to say this, but Indian fans have a bit of a habit of blaming the umps when they lose...
    given the run of wrong decisions on this tour though, i'm not surprised
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    I hate to say this, but Indian fans have a bit of a habit of blaming the umps when they lose...
    If it's unjust, then fair enough.
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    (Original post by biggie-n)
    given the run of wrong decisions on this tour though, i'm not surprised
    Fair point, but they've been against both teams IIRC.

    He's played a few good knocks recently. Kaif and Raina both had long stints. Its only fair Karthik gets the same. But I don't think no. 3 is necessarily his spot. He batted well with the tail in the first ODI so no.7 should be his spot. Dhoni at 3 would have worked better imo.
    I think Kaif still has a lot to offer in the lower middle order. Yuvraj in 3 like the last game would have been much better given his recent form IMO.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    Fair point, but they've been against both teams IIRC.
    In equal measure? I think not.

    (Original post by Socrates)
    I think Kaif still has a lot to offer in the lower middle order. Yuvraj in 3 like the last game would have been much better given his recent form IMO.
    Kaif does also offer a lot in the field. Like I said...lots for Dravid and co. to think about. Still, this tour has gone quite well given that they have no coach.
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    (Original post by biggie-n)
    In equal measure? I think not.
    True, India have most definitely got way more then their fair share of wrong decisions this summer. In this game though, I can only remember 1 bad decision (Yuvraj bowling - lbw). To blame the umpires for this game sounds is not fair though, it's clear to see England played better then India today. India let themselves down in the field, they hit the ball straight to the fielders and their running between the wickets is poor. India are still missing a decent all-rounder. The only option is swapping a bowler for an batsmen and have Tendulkar/Yuvraj/Ganguly bowling the rest of the overs. India could probably do with having Laxman in the side.
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    (Original post by AesopRock)
    True, India have most definitely got way more then their fair share of wrong decisions this summer. In this game though, I can only remember 1 bad decision (Yuvraj bowling - lbw).
    I agree, that's exactly what I said a bit further up.

    (Original post by AesopRock)
    India could probably do with having Laxman in the side.
    No, his running between wickets and fielding is abysmal as well. I'd rather a youngster like Uthappa was given a go.
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    Laxman is a pretty good close fielder, some of his catches at slip have been outstanding.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    I hate to say this, but Indian fans have a bit of a habit of blaming the umps when they lose...
    You said it, not me! :p: and even when India win there is still quite a lot of abuse aimed at them
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    (Original post by SuperDaz)
    You said it, not me! :p: and even when India win there is still quite a lot of abuse aimed at them
    I thought we'd been over this...if the decisions are wrong (and consistently so), then yes, they will get abused regardless of the match result. umpires can live with it...just as players have to live with walking back when not-out or being turned down a decision
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    (Original post by AesopRock)
    True, India have most definitely got way more then their fair share of wrong decisions this summer. In this game though, I can only remember 1 bad decision (Yuvraj bowling - lbw). To blame the umpires for this game sounds is not fair though, it's clear to see England played better then India today. India let themselves down in the field, they hit the ball straight to the fielders and their running between the wickets is poor. India are still missing a decent all-rounder. The only option is swapping a bowler for an batsmen and have Tendulkar/Yuvraj/Ganguly bowling the rest of the overs. India could probably do with having Laxman in the side.
    Of course England played very well today, and India were very poor - but there were 2 bad decisions. One which Collingwood escaped with and went on to score 30 odd runs after, and one which Pieterson escaped, off the bowling of Chawla I think. Had those two decisions been given, India probably would've been chasing around 250 ish - which they would've done.

    My umpire for the MOTM comment was tongue-in-cheek. I do not in any way believe the umpires are purposely making poor decisions against India, but it's very unfortunate that they are. It becomes much harder to win a match when you have to take 12/13 wickets to bowl the opposition out.
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    (Original post by Suc-Cesc!!!)
    and one which Pieterson escaped, off the bowling of Chawla I think. Had those two decisions been given, India probably would've been chasing around 250 ish - which they would've done.
    Pietersen only made 9 anyway though!
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    (Original post by HistoryStudent)
    Pietersen only made 9 anyway though!
    Add Colly's score.
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    (Original post by Suc-Cesc!!!)
    Add Colly's score.
    No point really. You're just speculating. You can't base an argument on what ifs. If Collingwood was given out, then Shah probably would have differently and not tried to hit Yuvraj out of the park.
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    (Original post by AesopRock)
    No point really. You're just speculating. You can't base an argument on what ifs. If Collingwood was given out, then Shah probably would have differently and not tried to hit Yuvraj out of the park.
    Of course it's speculation, but it doesn't take a genius to know that England probably wouldn't have scored as many if some of their batsman's contributions were cut short. I see what you're saying - that who's to say Shah couldn't have played defensively and scored runs. But it rarely works like that. I mean he (Shah) - by all means - might well have gone on to score runs, but the number of balls he would've consumed would've restricted England's final total.

    I know this may sound a little too farfetched - having just read it through myself, I don't think I explained myself very well. :p: What I'm trying to say is, a team is more likely to score more runs when they're 140-3 rather than 140-5. And although I agree this is pure speculation, I think probability makes it a valid argument.
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    (Original post by Suc-Cesc!!!)
    Of course England played very well today, and India were very poor
    Apparently some English fans can't read.....

    England were definitely the better side today, and I'm yet to see an Indian fan argue otherwise.


    EDIT: Scratch this - it looks like Daz deleted his post.
 
 
 
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