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    I think he will to be honest, who else is there? It depends if Udal plays ahead of Blackwell or not. Udal has some batting ability, but with Blackwell you have an all-rounder which is every selectors dream. It doesn't even seem to matter how good an all-rounder you are now a days, if you can bat a bit and bowl a bit you're always going to be in with a look in in international cricket. ***** Watson for instance is a pretty average cricketer, young I know and may improve, but still pretty average.

    With Gough out there's also another seamer's slot open, Plunkett could maybe get a game, depends how Anderson goes early on with Harmison. I'm not sure I'd play Hoggard in the one dayers since he got a lot of stick in SA during that series.
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    (Original post by Iscariot)
    I think he will to be honest, who else is there? It depends if Udal plays ahead of Blackwell or not. Udal has some batting ability, but with Blackwell you have an all-rounder which is every selectors dream. It doesn't even seem to matter how good an all-rounder you are now a days, if you can bat a bit and bowl a bit you're always going to be in with a look in in international cricket. ***** Watson for instance is a pretty average cricketer, young I know and may improve, but still pretty average.

    With Gough out there's also another seamer's slot open, Plunkett could maybe get a game, depends how Anderson goes early on with Harmison. I'm not sure I'd play Hoggard in the one dayers since he got a lot of stick in SA during that series.
    Udal is ok at what he does, changing flight etc... but Blackwell would be better for actually spinning it. I always thought he was just a bowler, and went an slogged with the bat. Like a bad version of Afridi really... not really an all rounder.

    I think Plunkett is coming into the side. We should never use Gough, Caddick etc again, need to get the new people more experienced instead! It depends what the wickets doing whether Hoggie should be used. If it's overcast and green then he'll be swinging it like nobodies business and he should be used. I'm not really a fan of Anderson...
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    hmm...considering what you're saying about bringing new talent through - should udal really have started his international career so late when they could have brought in a younger spinner instead...
    Since blackwell has an average of around 40 in 4-day county cricket, he should be able to translate that to around 30, and if coming in at 8, this would be what is wanted.etc. from him.
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    The thing is, in English cricket there are very few spinners taking piles of wickets who are English players within the county circuit. Look at Giles, he absolutely murdered it for Warickshire before the Bangladesh series started, and that was in April and May English pitches, but aside from him there hasn't really been anyone. That says that first of all Giles probably is the best England have got at the moment and that incredible county form does not necessarily translate into incredible Test match form. (see: Graeme Hick, John Crawley, Mark Ramprakash)

    Alex Loudon's touring as the junior spinner and he's only played 40 first class games in his life and taken wickets at an average of 38. Hardly figures to fall over yourself for. The only reason Loudon's touring is he has a batting average of 30+ as well, so I think England have basically accepted for the moment there are no out and out spinners in England and are looking for a player who can bat down the order and bowl a lot of overs, even if they're not necessarily wicket takers. If you look at Giles, his batting has improved alot since he first started playing for England.

    Giles biggest problem is a fundamental with his spinning hand, I was talking with Stuart Barnes who is assistant coach at Gloucestershire the other week I had two sessions with him, and we watched a bit of stuff on the television and he reckons Giles' biggest problem is his thumb is on the ball at the point of release which severely dampens his revolutions.
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    hmm - interesting...
    It did say a lot to me when vaughan came on to bowl and turned it more than giles...I would personally like to see him bowling more - I mean, he did for tendulkar so why not get him practicing those skills a little more...
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    why did the 3rd test thread get merged with this.

    i think we need another thread for it or this topic will end up with some 30/40 pages after the end of the test.
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    Make predictions for the third test, i think it would be a draw, England bat first, post a hug score, then pakistan do the same, then england post another big score, and TADA MATCH DRAWN!
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    no - just talk about it in here - it will be what we all want to talk about once its actually begun...
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    Some bowling averages thus far:

    I R Bell 33.0
    M J Hoggard 33.44
    A F Giles 82.33
    S D Udal 92.5

    I know you can hardly say Bells 7 overs are a reliable contrast with the others, but I still find it funny how he's doing so much better then our spinners on a spinning wicket.
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    I would recommend Eng go in with a seemer !

    There is no point having a crap spinner who will do nothing as the precedent seems to have been set !

    A seemer might actually bowl some decent line and length deliveries and create pressure ! None of Eng spinners can turn the ball or get wickets !
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    hmm - from those stats I agree!
    I personally would like to see anderson back in...and if collingwoods in for strauss too, that means another potential bowler, and with his good variety of deliveries, he will be able to get a good haul in my opinion.
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    hmm...considering what you're saying about bringing new talent through - should udal really have started his international career so late when they could have brought in a younger spinner instead...
    Since blackwell has an average of around 40 in 4-day county cricket, he should be able to translate that to around 30, and if coming in at 8, this would be what is wanted.etc. from him.
    I don't think Udal should be playing for us really, or Giles for that matter. We really need spinners who actually spin. You're making Blackwell sound better and better, but when I saw him he didn't look that great.

    (Original post by Iscariot[/quote)
    The thing is, in English cricket there are very few spinners taking piles of wickets who are English players within the county circuit. Look at Giles, he absolutely murdered it for Warickshire before the Bangladesh series started, and that was in April and May English pitches, but aside from him there hasn't really been anyone. That says that first of all Giles probably is the best England have got at the moment and that incredible county form does not necessarily translate into incredible Test match form. (see: Graeme Hick, John Crawley, Mark Ramprakash)

    Alex Loudon's touring as the junior spinner and he's only played 40 first class games in his life and taken wickets at an average of 38. Hardly figures to fall over yourself for. The only reason Loudon's touring is he has a batting average of 30+ as well, so I think England have basically accepted for the moment there are no out and out spinners in England and are looking for a player who can bat down the order and bowl a lot of overs, even if they're not necessarily wicket takers. If you look at Giles, his batting has improved alot since he first started playing for England.

    Giles biggest problem is a fundamental with his spinning hand, I was talking with Stuart Barnes who is assistant coach at Gloucestershire the other week I had two sessions with him, and we watched a bit of stuff on the television and he reckons Giles' biggest problem is his thumb is on the ball at the point of release which severely dampens his revolutions.
    Good post. I think Loudon ought to be given a chance sometime soon. Maybe in India if Giles is out, especially if it's later in the series and we're fourtunate enough to need a draw to win the series etc, can take a few more risks then. Just to see how he can perform in tests.

    What's the worst that can happen? Hell average in the 90's on a spinning wicket? Oh wait.... so does Giles!

    (Original post by ledzep15)
    Make predictions for the third test, i think it would be a draw, England bat first, post a hug score, then pakistan do the same, then england post another big score, and TADA MATCH DRAWN!
    How can you predict what way the toss will go? I agree it'll be a draw. Despite what Inzy has said I think that if it started to go wrong for Pakistan they'd sit on the draw and win the series.
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    well...theres a piece on the bbc website where I'm sourcing some of my info, but I have a mate from taunton and he says he's top notch - so you cant argue with that!
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    well...theres a piece on the bbc website where I'm sourcing some of my info, but I have a mate from taunton and he says he's top notch - so you cant argue with that!
    I'll have to see him sometime then, not been to a Somerset match in a while...
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    Most likely a draw !

    However after the last 2 tests its hard to see Eng winning !

    The beauty is you never know !
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    fair enough - since he's going out for the pakistan ODI's now, you might get an opportunity for it then - most people seem to rate him highly as a limited overs players - attacking with both the bat and ball, and nothing to worry about in the field...lets hope for gods sake they put pietersen back down at third man aswell - he actually caught stuff there!
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    (Original post by pete77)
    Most likely a draw !

    However after the last 2 tests its hard to see Eng winning !

    The beauty is you never know !
    I'd say both tests, especially the first, showed we have a chance. Even if not for the whole 5 days either time, we certainly had our moments.

    In fact after 4 days in the first match we were probably favourites. So maybe we could do that again, but with us batting first and that advantage would make up the 20 odd runs difference....
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    If we win the toss, I think we'll win...if we lose, probably a draw.
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    However crucial the toss is ! It is never enough to decide victory or loss when a great/good side plays !
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    I dunno - the way the pitch deteriorates it can be a massive thing in the way the game goes - the pitch on the last day was a big factor in taking the english wickets (first test), and could have been in the second test too - those two wickets from akhtar were completely unpredictable off the surfece.
 
 
 
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