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    (Original post by eggnchips)
    Most of the trouble is actually caused by undercover agitators from the police and MI5 its a fairly common tactic. My Uncle was in the Army in 80s and was volunteered several times to stir up trouble with striking miners/dockers etc.
    Your Uncle was in the army and involved in the Miners/Dockers Strikes....right sorry but I don't believe that.

    and yes, I agree with AJ MI5 have far better things to do with there time.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    Better things to do than quelling major social unrest in the capital city?
    He claimed MI5 caused this and was agitating in the protests.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    I'm not conforming to anything. Every single person's political ideals are unique. I do not affiliate myself to any political party or movement.
    You are conforming to the broad stereotype of the 'rebel'; Somebody who rejects authority. So don't go preaching about how we are all conformist and you are one of the select few who have 'woken up' as it were.
    You have dramatically oversimplified an individuals life by making the statement 'watch xfactor, sit at home blah blah', which is blatantly untrue. You have managed to construct a fantastic strawman that has no actual foundation as an argument. The truth of the matter is, our current governmental system dictates that the Conservative-Liberal coalition have the mandate to govern, and it is therefore not your mandate to cause damage and try and force your minority will onto the majority.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    You can get arrested for pretty much any form of protest in central London unless you have written permission. All under absurd terrorism laws.
    Having written permission to protest is necessary so the disruption of ordinary citizens is not affected. What? You want to turn MORE people against your cause? Be my guest...
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    He claimed MI5 caused this and was agitating in the protests.
    Not sure about caused but certainly there will have been undercover officers involved. It would be naive to think otherwise.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    Not sure about caused but certainly there will have been undercover officers involved. It would be naive to think otherwise.
    Why? you are making assumptions without evidence again. :rolleyes:
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    They rioted, graffiiti'ed public property, smashed and damaged public property and indiscriminately attacked police (the thug mobs outside Trafalgar square anyway), I'm sure they got kettled cos the police saw them as a potential threat or as having the potential to be rowdy and destructive
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    He claimed MI5 caused this and was agitating in the protests.
    I never said they where involved, I just suggested it was within their remit, its what they do. Look at how the Met infiltrated greenpeace, the undercover officers there where encouraging activists into illegal acts over a number of years.
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    (Original post by Ocassus)
    You are conforming to the broad stereotype of the 'rebel'; Somebody who rejects authority. So don't go preaching about how we are all conformist and you are one of the select few who have 'woken up' as it were.
    You have dramatically oversimplified an individuals life by making the statement 'watch xfactor, sit at home blah blah', which is blatantly untrue. You have managed to construct a fantastic strawman that has no actual foundation as an argument. The truth of the matter is, our current governmental system dictates that the Conservative-Liberal coalition have the mandate to govern, and it is therefore not your mandate to cause damage and try and force your minority will onto the majority.
    I don't do it out of any desire to be called a rebel, my belief system has just fundamentally changed in an involuntary process that has lasted several months.

    It's not my mandate to cause damage and undermine the current system, I just want to so I will, even if that is in a small and insignificant way. What do you suggest I do? conform because you want me to? because life would be so much better if we were all the same?
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    (Original post by Ocassus)
    Why? you are making assumptions without evidence again. :rolleyes:
    I don't have the link to hand, but there is footage on youtube which shows one of the 'anarchists' flash some ID at police and get past the lines.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    I don't do it out of any desire to be called a rebel, my belief system has just fundamentally changed in an involuntary process that has lasted several months.

    It's not my mandate to cause damage and undermine the current system, I just want to so I will, even if that is in a small and insignificant way. What do you suggest I do? conform because you want me to? because life would be so much better if we were all the same?
    You seem to think that it is black and white? The majority of people conform to the basic laws of government, it doesn't make us all 'the same' by any stretch of the imagination. Once again, you have construed a strawman by twisting what I have said into a stark contrast. You can have your own political beliefs, but they must be confined within a civil structure or else the stability of modern society is at risk. This is why we have democracy, so there is no need for uprisings etc.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    ....
    And that proves what exactly? Basic Critical thinking dictates that one isolated [and dubious in terms of credibility] source does not imply scale of effect. In short, you do not know the full details in order to make a reasoned conclusion.
    And as Aj12 says, how can you be sure it was meant to be a protestor?
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    Not sure about caused but certainly there will have been undercover officers involved. It would be naive to think otherwise.
    They were there arresting people everyone knew it and it was all over the media.
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    (Original post by eggnchips)
    I never said they where involved, I just suggested it was within their remit, its what they do. Look at how the Met infiltrated greenpeace, the undercover officers there where encouraging activists into illegal acts over a number of years.
    For which he was criticized and other undercover officers came out and said he went far beyond what he was there to do. There are strict guidelines.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    I don't have the link to hand, but there is footage on youtube which shows one of the 'anarchists' flash some ID at police and get past the lines.
    I've seen the video, hes wearing a hoodie, its from a helicopter, he could well have been press, and yes there were undercover cops, arresting people who thought "If I stay in this big crowd, the police wont see me when I do wrong"
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    (Original post by el scampio)
    It appears the BBC and other media sources have told bare faced lies to the nation with regards to what happened during last saturdays London protests.

    Here is an eyewitness account from somebody who was in Trafalgar Square: http://55t.co.uk/55t03/index.php?opt...2011&Itemid=55

    All police are evil liars and murderers supported by a corrupt judiciary, and a mainstream media owned and controlled by about 10 people worldwide.

    All media should be boycotted starting with newspapers. Stop paying your TV licence. If you don't give them money - you don't finance their propaganda.
    The fact that your posting this means you have an internet connection now either your on a phone or pc.

    Now let’s say you’re on a phone this means you must be paying a phone bill now if you like it or not you are funding "media madness" through tax. You pay tax the phone company pays tax, tax funds media.

    Let’s say you’re using a pc, same story you then have to have an ISP and blah blah tax blah blah blah.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is unless you want to fund them even more I suggest you do us all a favour and **** off you anarchist pig
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    (Original post by Ocassus)
    You seem to think that it is black and white? The majority of people conform to the basic laws of government, it doesn't make us all 'the same' by any stretch of the imagination. Once again, you have construed a strawman by twisting what I have said into a stark contrast. You can have your own political beliefs, but they must be confined within a civil structure or else the stability of modern society is at risk. This is why we have democracy, so there is no need for uprisings etc.
    I've never made out it was black and white.

    I don't have to confine my beliefs to anything, I am free to think whatever I want. There is no objective way of saying if there is need for uprisings or not.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    I've never made out it was black and white.

    I don't have to confine my beliefs to anything, I am free to think whatever I want. There is no objective way of saying if there is need for uprisings or not.
    Hmm, well in that case, I believe that I should gut you with a carving knife and then feed your giblets to my dog, and i also believe that I shouldn't take responsibility for those actions. Should I therefore not take responsibility for those actions? Of course not, if that was the case, then society would disintegrate and civil life would end. We have to conform to a moral code of civility, else we spiral into a world of disorder, and we will regress as a race [and possibly drive ourselves extinct].
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    (Original post by Ocassus)
    Hmm, well in that case, I believe that I should gut you with a carving knife and then feed your giblets to my dog, and i also believe that I shouldn't take responsibility for those actions. Should I therefore not take responsibility for those actions? Of course not, if that was the case, then society would disintegrate and civil life would end. We have to conform to a moral code of civility, else we spiral into a world of disorder, and we will regress as a race [and possibly drive ourselves extinct].
    But you don't want to gut me with a carving knife, because deep down you are spiritual beacon of love
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    But you don't want to gut me with a carving knife, because deep down you are spiritual beacon of love
    No, remember, I am an evil, conformist, capitalistic pig?
 
 
 
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