Art & Design Foundation. CCW (UAL) or City and Guilds?? Watch

arty
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Hey.

I Have an offer for CCW foundation course. But I'm rather apprehensive about the course because although I'm aware it's a great opportunity, the numbers are huge (750).

I've also been told there will be limited space and tutor teaching/help. You spend 3 days in the studio per week working, and I'm told you're not welcome in them for the other days of the week as there's no space. Also as this is the first year the 3 UAL colleges have merged, (Camberwell, Chelsea and Wimbledon) I'm thinking there could be quite a few teething problems.

Another place I'm considering is CITY AND GUILDS OF LONDON ART SCHOOL.

Does anyone have any experience of this place? I know it's private and not as mainstream. But the examples of current foundation students work on their site is very impressive. Also they only take about 40 students every year, and there is a lot of space in the light airy studios they have.

They seem to focus more on traditional art and painting. Which I really like. I think perhaps I'd flourish more in that friendly smaller caring environment. But then again UAL is more prestigious isn't it? And offers more opportunities!

Help!? Any advice/experience of these colleges?

Thanks
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Neurofishy
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I can't decide between these two either. For the same reasons as you :\
Also city and guilds would cost me £6000 while I'd get UAL for free because I'm under 19...
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arty
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CCW doesn't seem to be very friendly! I've just had an email back from them saying there will be between 26 and 36 in each class. Which is pretty bit for further education art?

I also don't like the way you're not welcome in the college studios when you don't have a studio day. I think it sets the tone for how it's going to be. They have so many students it's like they are not going to go out of their way for you, you get your allocated time slot and then that's it.

Have you got an offer from City and Guilds? And had an interview? What was it like compared to CCW? was it small and friendly and lovely?!
Last edited by arty; 6 years ago
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cocacola123
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I discovered City and Guilds a week ago and I think the foundation course looks really really good! I went to an open day and actually prefer the small and friendly feel of the collge to when I visited CSM and CCW. The work was of a high standard and the students get alot of tutor attention compared to the other colleges! It seems like they also seem to cater to every students individual needs, like they really help you fid out and develop what your interested in. Another good thing I found, is that all the students work alongside each other, for example, the foundation students can quite easily go and look at the BA students work and discuss ideas. Just seemed like a really nice place where everyone knows everyone because its so small. The only drawback for me is the fees!! But I think its worth £6,000.
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arty
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(Original post by cocacola123)
I discovered City and Guilds a week ago and I think the foundation course looks really really good! I went to an open day and actually prefer the small and friendly feel of the collge to when I visited CSM and CCW. The work was of a high standard and the students get alot of tutor attention compared to the other colleges! It seems like they also seem to cater to every students individual needs, like they really help you fid out and develop what your interested in. Another good thing I found, is that all the students work alongside each other, for example, the foundation students can quite easily go and look at the BA students work and discuss ideas. Just seemed like a really nice place where everyone knows everyone because its so small. The only drawback for me is the fees!! But I think its worth £6,000.
yeah, the world looks really impressive. Also I really like the emphasis on drawing and traditional values in art. I know they do a lot of life drawing there.

However as you say the fee's are a massive set back for a foundation course. Another con is that hardly anyone has heard of it, so not so impressive on the CV as UAL. Also little things like there's no university accomodation. I really like the idea of small numbers... however 200 people in the whole university seems quite limited as to who you would be mixing with! Would be fine if there was a lovely 'crowd' there, but you never know!!

I just feel UAL offers more opportunities!! & It's only 6 months ish you are actually there, so seeems £6000 is a fortune for a few months!!

I have no idea what to do!!

Have you a place at CCW and City and Guilds? Or where?

thanks
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cocacola123
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Yeah now you put it that way £1000 a month is alot! I don't have a place anywhere yet Which is abit worrying! I applied to CSM and didn't get in so I'm applying to a few other places.. City and Guilds and hopefully Camberwell if theres clearing. Yeah I reckon UAL would have more opportunities too and it looks really good on a CV! But I still don't think that you are guaranteed to do well by going there. Considering how many students there are, you only seem to hear about a handful of them. I guess its just what you make out of the opportunity really. I really had my heart set on going to CSM at first but I think it was for the wrong reasons!

Did you apply any where else? I don't know where else to look at... was thining Leeds maybe? Have yiou got a place at City and Guilds?
Last edited by cocacola123; 7 years ago
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arty
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no, I haven't even applied to City and Guilds. But I was seriously considering it because of the great standard of work and small numbers. My other unconditional offer is just from my local college that I applied to (as my 'stay at home option') and basically that offers the same small numbers as City and Guilds... but it's just £ 5000 cheaper!! Obviously I doubt the work will be as impressive... but £6000 for a practically unheard of foundation is rather a lot!

So I have to choose between my 2 offers... CCW (UAL) and my local college. It's a tough one, as London is such a great opportunity and UAL. But it's going to be very expensive and there will be so many people in the college/course. I think it will be quite impersonal. I'm not really a massive fan of south London either!!

It's such a door opener && seeing as I've got in, I think perhaps I should go!
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arty
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(Original post by cocacola123)
I discovered City and Guilds a week ago and I think the foundation course looks really really good! I went to an open day and actually prefer the small and friendly feel of the collge to when I visited CSM and CCW. The work was of a high standard and the students get alot of tutor attention compared to the other colleges! It seems like they also seem to cater to every students individual needs, like they really help you fid out and develop what your interested in. Another good thing I found, is that all the students work alongside each other, for example, the foundation students can quite easily go and look at the BA students work and discuss ideas. Just seemed like a really nice place where everyone knows everyone because its so small. The only drawback for me is the fees!! But I think its worth £6,000.
I heard someone say that "you get what you pay for" when you go to City and Guilds!!! So yes I think it's probably worth the money!!

I think though (I maybe wrong) but from what I gathered is that there are a lot of alternative type people who study there! Ie mature students and people from all kinds of backgrounds (different from UAL) so that could be interesting! You'd be fooled into thinking it would be mainly public school people as the fee's are similar, however I don;t think this is the case.

Lots of mature students who have a previous/skilled career (accountant, teachers, etc) who want to head in new directions.
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MinTheMooch
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I'm going to City and Guilds next year; I didn't get into CCW but to be honest, I'm quite happy about that - C&G really impressed me and it's a really nice space. It's true that few people have heard of it but the ones who have - parents' friends who work in the art world or related fields, so they should know about art schools - like it a lot and the people working there and think it's a much better experience than somewhere like CCW. Really, it's about the portfolio work you produce, not the name you put on your CV. They have a really good record of getting people into their choice of BA course, so you've got a good chance of getting into somewhere more well known for BA if you wanted to.

The fees are pretty daunting, but since the alternative for me was living away from home - which would cost at least £5,000 - it seemed worth it to stay at home and go somewhere really good. And btw I'm not a private school student or anything liek that (I was a bit nervous that that would be the background for most of the students - doesn't look like it though) and never would have considered applying to this place if it hadn't looked good.

Yeah, so propaganda finished. Hope that's helpful!
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arty
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(Original post by MinTheMooch)
I'm going to City and Guilds next year; I didn't get into CCW but to be honest, I'm quite happy about that - C&G really impressed me and it's a really nice space. It's true that few people have heard of it but the ones who have - parents' friends who work in the art world or related fields, so they should know about art schools - like it a lot and the people working there and think it's a much better experience than somewhere like CCW. Really, it's about the portfolio work you produce, not the name you put on your CV. They have a really good record of getting people into their choice of BA course, so you've got a good chance of getting into somewhere more well known for BA if you wanted to.

The fees are pretty daunting, but since the alternative for me was living away from home - which would cost at least £5,000 - it seemed worth it to stay at home and go somewhere really good. And btw I'm not a private school student or anything like that (I was a bit nervous that that would be the background for most of the students - doesn't look like it though) and never would have considered applying to this place if it hadn't looked good.

Yeah, so propaganda finished. Hope that's helpful!
wow, that is so helpful! So you didn't get a place from CCW but City and Guilds offered you a place?
Well done, as they told me 300 people apply for 60 places, you did well to get in.

I'm sure it'll be amazing, as you say the work was really impressive and I really like the focus on traditional art.

However having said that I have just accepted my place on the CCW course and am not going to apply to C&G. Just because I think I need to take up the opportunity and get out of my comfort zone of small numbers! -Even though I think it will be less enjoyable!! Also I'm not sure the fee's would be worth it for me (however I can understand if you live in london already and the alternative would mean paying accommodation).

I'm not from London and accommodation and living costs are already going to cost me a small fortune!! I'm also considering spending some time abroad after the foundation (before perhaps doing a degree), and UAL is internationally renown, so could be useful.
Last edited by arty; 7 years ago
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cocacola123
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(Original post by MinTheMooch)
I'm going to City and Guilds next year; I didn't get into CCW but to be honest, I'm quite happy about that - C&G really impressed me and it's a really nice space. It's true that few people have heard of it but the ones who have - parents' friends who work in the art world or related fields, so they should know about art schools - like it a lot and the people working there and think it's a much better experience than somewhere like CCW. Really, it's about the portfolio work you produce, not the name you put on your CV. They have a really good record of getting people into their choice of BA course, so you've got a good chance of getting into somewhere more well known for BA if you wanted to.

The fees are pretty daunting, but since the alternative for me was living away from home - which would cost at least £5,000 - it seemed worth it to stay at home and go somewhere really good. And btw I'm not a private school student or anything liek that (I was a bit nervous that that would be the background for most of the students - doesn't look like it though) and never would have considered applying to this place if it hadn't looked good.

Yeah, so propaganda finished. Hope that's helpful!

I've applied to C&G... sent the letter off yesterday!! How long did it take for them to get back to you about an interview and how much notice did you get for the interview? Basically I want to add a lot of work to my portfolio that I used for CSM so I just wanna know roughly how much time I will get. They said I'll deffo be asked to come to an interview...
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MinTheMooch
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(Original post by cocacola123)
I've applied to C&G... sent the letter off yesterday!! How long did it take for them to get back to you about an interview and how much notice did you get for the interview? Basically I want to add a lot of work to my portfolio that I used for CSM so I just wanna know roughly how much time I will get. They said I'll deffo be asked to come to an interview...
They took a while to get back to me, but I applied back in November so they might be quicker now. My interview was in early March so I had quite a long time to wait. They're pretty prescriptive about what they want to see: no more than 2 sketchbooks, 15 A1 sheets with other work stuck on and 10 photographs of your best work on a CD so they can look at it after your interview to help them decide. Make sure your presentation is pretty neat, I got kind of told off for not keeping my work nicely presented...

Good luck anyway. My interviewer was quite critical of my work - I actually thought I wasn't going to get in - but I got a place so even if it seems harsh (and it might not at all, maybe the interviewer just didn't like me :|) just keep talking and don't take anything personally; I think that's what went well for me, they said I "had obviously done my research", which I guess is good...? Eheh.
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MinTheMooch
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(Original post by arty)
wow, that is so helpful! So you didn't get a place from CCW but City and Guilds offered you a place?
Well done, as they told me 300 people apply for 60 places, you did well to get in.

I'm sure it'll be amazing, as you say the work was really impressive and I really like the focus on traditional art.

However having said that I have just accepted my place on the CCW course and am not going to apply to C&G. Just because I think I need to take up the oportunity and get out of my comfort zone of small numbers! -Even though I think it will be less enojoyable!! Also I'm not sure the fee's would be worth it for me (however I can understand if you live in london already and the alternative would mean paying accomodation).

I'm not from London and accomodation and living costs are already going to cost me a small fortune!! I'm also considering spending some time abroad after the foundation (before perhaps doing a degree), and UAL is internationally renown, so could be useful.
Thanks, yeah I wasn't really expecting it to work out that way but I'm pretty happy with it. Well done for getting in to CCW, no one I know has got in there which was a bit odd - I guess the competition must be really tough. Yeah, living in London is not cheap and you'll probably have a great time, probably good for your independence as well. Good luck!
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cocacola123
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(Original post by MinTheMooch)
They took a while to get back to me, but I applied back in November so they might be quicker now. My interview was in early March so I had quite a long time to wait. They're pretty prescriptive about what they want to see: no more than 2 sketchbooks, 15 A1 sheets with other work stuck on and 10 photographs of your best work on a CD so they can look at it after your interview to help them decide. Make sure your presentation is pretty neat, I got kind of told off for not keeping my work nicely presented...

Good luck anyway. My interviewer was quite critical of my work - I actually thought I wasn't going to get in - but I got a place so even if it seems harsh (and it might not at all, maybe the interviewer just didn't like me :|) just keep talking and don't take anything personally; I think that's what went well for me, they said I "had obviously done my research", which I guess is good...? Eheh.
Can I ask who interviewed you? Was it Keith? Just had my interview although I don't think I was actually asked any questions which is quite odd. Was more of a discussion, like he'd look though my work and be like 'this is interesting' and I wasn't really sure how much I was supposed to be talking!
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Neurofishy
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(Original post by arty)
I'd have to pay for both because I will be 19 in Sept.

CCW doesn't seem to be very friendly! I've just had an email back from them saying there will be between 26 and 36 in each class. Which is pretty bit for further education art?

I also don't like the way you're not welcome in the college studios when you don't have a studio day. I think it sets the tone for how it's going to be. They have so many students it's like they are not going to go out of their way for you, you get your allocated time slot and then that's it.

Have you got an offer from City and Guilds? And had an interview? What was it like compared to CCW? was it small and friendly and lovely?!
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I say if you're accepted for both and you have to pay for both then definately go to city and guilds, I would go there if it wasn't for the money, and they both cost the same amount right?

oh ok I just read later posts lol, weirdly that's the reasons other than money that I'm going to CCW too haha, also I suppose It's more well known as well
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LEN17
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Hey

I'm thinking about going to city and guilds next year and was wondering if any of you go there this year, what you think about the course?
is it worth £6000?!
i've also applied to csm and kingston, i got into kingston but not sure what to do now! i'm pretty sure ill accept my place at C&G but it would be reassuring to hear from someone who is actually there so any advice would be helpful!
thanks
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RebeccaLdr
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Well congrats to all to have been accepted in foundation diploma at CCW! I am wondering, when did you get your answer? I'm in the wait and I start to be nervous.. ahah.. Thanks x
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arty
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(Original post by RebeccaLdr)
Well congrats to all to have been accepted in foundation diploma at CCW! I am wondering, when did you get your answer? I'm in the wait and I start to be nervous.. ahah.. Thanks x
beginning of March I think!
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kemmerson
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I am waiting too and now there's less than two weeks to go til the date they said we'd know by... Did most people who got a place get their conformation early March or is it more spread out?
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ellen44
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Do you think if we haven't heard by now then we haven't got a place?
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