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    (Original post by gildartz)
    Well dressing modestly in Islam is mostly for the benefit of the woman. If the woman chooses not to dress modestly then fair enough since it's her own choice and I don't see why others feel the need to throw abuse at her.
    In what way? so us rapacious males unable to restrain our desires don't go around attacking women? Seriously that's such a patriarchal nonsensical idea. If a woman wants to dress modestly then she can, if she wants to dress along more Western lines then she should be equally able to do so. It's the very essence of free will and freedom, you should be allowed to do what you want, so long as it doesn't hurt others. You shouldn't be told what is good for you, you should decide yourself.
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    No, the criteria for being Muslim is as follows: You must believe that "There is no god but God, and Muhammad is the messenger of God."
    So because they go against what God says and believe it's permissible they aren't a Muslim?
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    So because they go against what God says and believe it's permissible they aren't a Muslim?
    :confused:
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    In what way? so us rapacious males unable to restrain our desires don't go around attacking women? Seriously that's such a patriarchal nonsensical idea. If a woman wants to dress modestly then she can, if she wants to dress along more Western lines then she should be equally able to do so. It's the very essence of free will and freedom, you should be allowed to do what you want, so long as it doesn't hurt others. You shouldn't be told what is good for you, you should decide yourself.
    Western dress =/= not modest
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    So because they go against what God says and believe it's permissible they aren't a Muslim?
    Go against what the Qur'an says God said. Sometimes people need to adopt some pragmatism and read ancient texts with reference to the modern day. This is what most branches of mainstream Christianity does these days, it has adopted the teachings in the Bible to modern society. Especially amongst the Protestant denominations.

    Islam meanwhile continues along it's merry way largely unreformed and unrepetant in it's outdated views. Which leads to certain people reading the Qur'an far too literally because Islam has never had the reformation and challenge to it's views that the Protestant Reformation represented in Christianity.
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    You judge a Muslim by their faith. She has committed disbelief. A person can't worship idols and claim to be a Muslim, can they?
    no they cant but we arent the ones to judge whether they are muslim or not even if shes doignn things against islam...its simple ur not god so u dont judge the person whether they are good muslim or not...only god knows whats going on in their mind and what they have done throughout their life so stop sayin she isnt muslim its not for u to judge...

    (Original post by 7887)
    :hand:

    drop the tone.

    In my opinion, I don't think its fair to say that someone is not a Muslim based on that website unless you're Islamically qualified to do so, but even then I think God is our ultimate judge on that one. Lets just agree to disagree.
    salaams
    i dont think that user is gonna agree!
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    Western dress =/= not modest
    Firstly modesty is an entirely relative concept, what one person considers modest may differ massively from what another does. Secondly the definition of modesty doesn't matter in any way, shape nor form. If someone wants to dress immodestly then he/she should be able to. It's not hurting anyone and thus it should be allowed.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Firstly modesty is an entirely relative concept, what one person considers modest may differ massively from what another does. Secondly the definition of modesty doesn't matter in any way, shape nor form. If someone wants to dress immodestly then he/she should be able to. It's not hurting anyone and thus it should be allowed.
    That isn't relevant to what I said, but I agree :top:
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    In what way? so us rapacious males unable to restrain our desires don't go around attacking women? Seriously that's such a patriarchal nonsensical idea. If a woman wants to dress modestly then she can, if she wants to dress along more Western lines then she should be equally able to do so. It's the very essence of free will and freedom, you should be allowed to do what you want, so long as it doesn't hurt others. You shouldn't be told what is good for you, you should decide yourself.
    Ok....So I guess you agree with the rest of my post? <.<
    I was just stating one of the reasons why that idea was in place, I didn't give my opinion on the reason :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    Erm, re-read what I wrote. You can't deduce that based on my reasoning. My reasoning was that she states it's ALLOWED ergo changing the religion and what's haram to halal ergo committing Kufrul-Istihaal.


    6. Kufrul-Istihaal: Disbelief out of trying to make HARAM into HALAL. This applies to someone who accepts as lawful (Halal) that which Allaah has made unlawful (Haram) like alcohol or adultery.Only Allaah subhanahu wa ta'ala has the prerogative to make things Halal and Haram and those who seek to interfere with His right are like rivals to Him and therefore fall outside the boundries of faith.

    If the person back biting believes back biting is halal they aren't a Muslim. That's my reasoning.
    To any other posters reading this is correct. The only exception is if she's been taught that it is acceptable and changes her viewpoint as soon as she realises it's wrong. If she is trying to change what is halaal/haraam then she is no longer a Muslim.
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    She looks like a less pretty version of Laila Rouass, who happens to be Muzzy as well.
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    Ok firstly can i ask who yu all are to judge if she's muslim or not? God is the only one who can do that. She could be a better muslim than all of yu, yu guyz dont know that. She can do what she wants its her own will..there is Islam and if yu want to follow it then thats fine.. changing the restrictions..ok thats wrong, but judging how closer to God a person is, is nothing to do with yu all. She can be going to heaven for all yu know,
    ...so stop debating on this useless topic and talkin bs about this girl because its non of your concern... thread closed.
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    (Original post by gildartz)
    Ok....So I guess you agree with the rest of my post? <.<
    I was just stating one of the reasons why that idea was in place, I didn't give my opinion on the reason :rolleyes:
    and I was stating it was a horrible reason that has no relevance to the modern day. If you want to state more reasons I'll debunk each and every one of them.

    No one has a right to tell anyone else what they should wear, nor cast judgement upon the modesty or acceptability of what they wear. I think Goths look like bloody idiots but I'd be the first person to defend their right to dress like that.

    What I'm saying isn't a particulary revolutionary idea, it's a long held liberal belief that emerged in the 18th and 19th centuries. It's not even a modern thought.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    and I was stating it was a horrible reason that has no relevance to the modern day. If you want to state more reasons I'll debunk each and every one of them.

    No one has a right to tell anyone else what they should wear, nor cast judgement upon the modesty or acceptability of what they wear. I think Goths look like bloody idiots but I'd be the first person to defend their right to dress like that.

    What I'm saying isn't a particulary revolutionary idea, it's a long held liberal belief that emerged in the 18th and 19th centuries. It's not even a modern thought.
    Who on TSR has even disagreed with her RIGHT to dress as she pleases? I would like to see these posts you have 'debunked.'
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    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    To any other posters reading this is correct. The only exception is if she's been taught that it is acceptable and changes her viewpoint as soon as she realises it's wrong. If she is trying to change what is halaal/haraam then she is no longer a Muslim.
    Are the 2 poster's below Apostates? Because they have a different opinion to you.

    (Original post by SkyNinja)
    Ok firstly can i ask who yu all are to judge if she's muslim or not? God is the only one who can do that.
    (Original post by cool_beans1993)
    no they cant but we arent the ones to judge whether they are muslim or not even if shes doignn things against islam...its simple ur not god so u dont judge the person whether they are good muslim or not...only god knows whats going on in their mind and what they have done throughout their life so stop sayin she isnt muslim its not for u to judge...
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    Who on TSR has even disagreed with her RIGHT to dress as she pleases? I would like to see these posts you have 'debunked.'
    Numerous people on this thread have made the inference that if she dresses that way she can't truly be a Muslim. Which means to be a Muslim you must practice restrictive antiquated notions of how to conduct yourself in public written over a thousand years ago. I am suggesting this is idiotic and that Islam needs to change. That it needs to recognise it's operating in a modern (and also Western) environment and reconcile itself to modern values. Just like mainstream Christianity has done, especially the Protestant churches.
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    Nobody can say she's not a Muslim or she's going to hell, nobody. If she in her heart believes there is one God and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the final messenger then as far as I'm concerned she is a Muslim. Let Allah judge on the rest.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Numerous people on this thread have made the inference that if she dresses that way she can't truly be a Muslim. Which means to be a Muslim you must practice restrictive antiquated notions of how to conduct yourself in public written over a thousand years ago. I am suggesting this is idiotic and that Islam needs to change. That it needs to recognise it's operating in a modern (and also Western) environment and reconcile itself to modern values. Just like mainstream Christianity has done, especially the Protestant churches.
    So no-one has claimed she doesn't have the RIGHT to dress as she pleases. For the love of God answer the questions you are presented with and stop inventing your own, perhaps this is why you THINK you are debunking other posters when you are not at all.
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    talk about media hype!!! the media are constantly writing articles about little picky things which realistically are nt even news worthy in comparison to the poverty and the natural disasters taking place in the world. why do the media always make a big deal out of nothing????? everybody has opinons to loads of stuff. is it really that big of a deal???
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    Are the 2 poster's below Apostates? Because they have a different opinion to you.
    No they have a fair point. You can hardly judge whether someone's an apostate or not (a very serious accusation) based on one article or whatever. They could speculate/slander but you can't call someone an apostate simply for not wearing hijab or even entering a beauty pageant.
 
 
 
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